What screws do I fix end panels to wall cabinets with?

[opps]

Each to their own.

Fair enough, and I do not doubt that it works for you most of the time but we potentially have DIYers reading this post (both now and in the future).

You mentioned loosening the screw and the re-tightening to counter the jacking. You were the first to suggest that. A DIYer would not have known to do that prior to your post and could have made a complete mess.

The correct way is to pre-drill. Yes, in the real world there are many time savers that work equally well if one is suitably skilled but I doubt that many people using their first cordless drill will be able to judge the correct amount of torque as well as you.

For those DIYers I leave the following link- it is one of the first ones that I found on Google

https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/pilot-holes-clearance-holes-countersinks/

Hopefully the above will help them understand the importance of pre-drilling and then once they understand that they can follow your advice.

Regards Opps

 

[Draughtsman]

Pilot drill size for a 3.5mm? Would a 1.5mm steel bit be ok?

I may use a brad point wood drill to make a clean hole in the melamine, but no deeeper than a mil or so. It's not going to be be visible.

With the weight of a clad panel, four screws offer more than enough support in sheer. Not much call for tension where care is taken to close the gap before screwing.

Dedicated MDF/Chipboard screws have wider dia. heads...hmm.

I suppose the poly film on the doors/clad panels must be on the outside, and is removed upon completion. Handy.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

You can pilot and countersink as you will, but the chipboard beneath the melamine facing is very soft in comparison with it and unless you have the time to hand screw each and every screw it is just as likely that you will end up pulling the head in too fast and too far resulting in the screw piercing the outer face of the deco panel. Good luck trying to drill a pilot hole and a clearance hole in soft material (chipboard core) where the screws themselves are 3.5mm diameter (so clearance 3.8mm/pilot 3.2mm?) which I believe will result in screws which detach themselves a heck of a lot more readily than done the regualer way. I can't recall any fitters I've ever worked with who insisted on pre-piloting such small screws in out of the way places during a kitchen install (and I've always rejected sloppy, gappy panel fits). The trick, though (as stated earlier), is to use the appropriate screws and clamp the components together so that they act as one piece. Hospa screws are specifically designed to be screwed into MFC and providing the two adjacent surfaces of carcass and deco panel are held together there will be no spelching where the screw exits one and enters the other and therefore no gap.

 

[blup]

For me as a DIYER, a small pilot hole, or even using a bradawl, helps the screw bite, particularly if the confines of the cabinet make it difficult to line up the screw.

The Makita quad driver (or flip driver in other forms) speeds up the overall fixing process, especially if you're limited to one drill.

Blup

 

[Draughtsman]

Do the rear edges of the clad panels line up flush with the back of the cabinet?

I have 330 deep cabs with 350 deep clads, the kit is 16mm mdf so I would this would give a 20 deep recess between clads for a 16thk door (plus those little 2.5 silicon door protector things).

 

[opps]

melamine facing is very soft in comparison with it and unless you have the time to hand screw each and every screw it is just as likely that you will end up pulling the head in too fast and too far resulting in the screw piercing the outer face of the deco panel.

All modern cordless drills have a torque setting and variable speed.

Good luck trying to drill a pilot hole and a clearance hole in soft material (chipboard core) where the screws themselves are 3.5mm diameter (so clearance 3.8mm/pilot 3.2mm?) which I believe will result in screws which detach themselves a heck of a lot more readily than done the regualer way.

You wont need anything larger than 2mm for chipboard when using 3.5mm screws.

I can't recall any fitters I've ever worked with who insisted on pre-piloting such small screws in out of the way places during a kitchen install (and I've always rejected sloppy, gappy panel fits).

I am not making this stuff up- I used to work for a cabinet maker. He also taught me that pre-drillling when nailing timber results in a stronger fix. The fact that most carpenters don't bother doesn't negate the science behind the principle.

Type 17 screws (eg Spax) have small dents to accommodate the dust generated when not pre-drilling, AFAIK HOSPA screws don't. Yes, I would recommend HOSPA screws but not to be used as a type 17 screw.

The trick, though (as stated earlier), is to use the appropriate screws and clamp the components together so that they act as one piece.

Point taken, but how do you clamp the panels at the wall end?

Hey, it works for you (and many other people), fair play, but it is not the "correct" way, it is the "should be ok way". There are many shortcuts, they are still shortcuts though. I say that as someone who occasionally takes shortcuts, so I am not sitting in judgement.

 

[blup]

Do the rear edges of the clad panels line up flush with the back of the cabinet?

I have 330 deep cabs with 350 deep clads, the kit is 16mm mdf so I would this would give a 20 deep recess between clads for a 16thk door (plus those little 2.5 silicon door protector things).

Yes, I think the overlap lines up with door thickness, sometimes you might need to trim some of the depth if the don't fully match.

Blup

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I am not making this stuff up- I used to work for a cabinet maker. He also taught me that pre-drillling when nailing timber results in a stronger fix. The fact that most carpenters don't bother doesn't negate the science behind the principle

I'd love to see how he'd do on an oak panelling install where we needed to put in tens of metres of floor to ceiling grounds (nailed softwood). There's such a thing as using the appropriate technique for the task at hand.

I was taught my trade more than 4 decades ago, when MFC was really not that widely used in quality kitchens. I know the theory, but in practice your way is, frankly, torturously slow and just wouldn't make you a living. In reality chipboard is so soft that it can be dealt with by using a scratch awl or a birdcage maker's awl to make a starter point in the laminate, then driving the screws quickly. I rarely use a drill with torque settings, but then I've driven my fair share of screws since the early 1970s, so I think I have got the technique down pat by now - enough to realise that the screw must be driven quickly, not slowly and hesitantly. Bear in mind that I hide the vast majority of screws I install this way, either beneath a hinge plate, behind a shelf or down a hole, etc therefore a slightly ragged appearance on the occasional hole is of little consequence except to the a****y retentive

Point taken, but how do you clamp the panels at the wall end

Pretty much every deco panel I've installed has been done before the worktop has been installed (which makes getting the worktop length right much easier than calculations) and has required scribing to both the floor and the back wall. I always bracket deco panels to the floor at at least two points. That makes for a good fix in my experience