Where to get energy for the future

[JohnD]

Considering problems as nuke does have them I wonder about wind backed up by gas but that can't last for ever.

One idea is to generate hydrogen from surplus electricity (very easy).

Recombine it in a fuel cell (or even a turbine) to generate electricity in time of need.

Like market-stabilising intervention stocks, it's self financing, and even profitable (buy it when it's cheap, sell it when it's expensive)

I suppose it might even be possible to create hydrocarbons using extracted CO2, which would be carbon-neutral.

Doubtless there are billions being spent on research. It will be interesting to see some commercial solutions. Imagine if you were Shell or Exxon and got it right.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The other aspect is what capacity is needed to account for low or no wind.

Almost 100% backup, there lies the problem. Gas is what is mostly used as backup now, but is expensive and becoming more so. Nuke is pointless as backup, because it is as cheap to run at 100% output, as it would be sat there doing nowt as backup.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Gibson Mill, a National Trust building near Hebden Bridge, is run from many different sources of renewable power and is entirely off grid. It's interesting to see all the different technologies in action. Most of these are impractical for the average building; for instance Gibson Mill has a huge basement full of banks of 48v batteries.

Elsewhere in Hebden Bridge, a cafe is powered by an Archimedes screw turbine. Alright for those who live beside a raging stream.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

You do have to wonder sometimes (if you believe in intelligent design) if somebody somewhere is looking down saying: I've given you this massive ball of solar energy, a moon to cause wind and waves, and several large spare planets full of natural resources and all you want to do is bomb each other.

Solar is a good source for many houses.
360w panels are now pretty cheap and battery storage is getting cheaper. Combine that with an EV and you really do dent the nations dependancy on imported energy.

We'll never learn. I mentioned in another thread about space, the final frontier, and the future. Do you think in decades/centuries to come when we do more 'up there' that we'll ensure equality? Or do you think we'll still revert to type, arguing over who owns what areas of <insert planet name> claiming territory then threatening anyone we think is trying to take it away. True equality or the usual sh1te ... do you need three guesses?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

This is what the Greens say re energy ... nuclear as you might have guessed doesn't feature.

Power
EN010 In line with the move from fossil fuels, clean electricity generation will be substantially increased, based primarily on renewable, very low carbon sources with offshore wind as a major source, supported by onshore wind, marine, solar photo-voltaic, biofuels (with combined heat) (CHP) and hydro power.

EN011 Continuity of supply will be ensured by using the UK’s renewable energy sources and a variety of storage technologies, links to other countries’ grids and minimal use of natural gas to balance demand and supply, and consistent with meeting demand in real-time. Surplus electricity will be transformed into heat and gas and stored (power to gas), or exported.

EN012 Carbon capture and storage (CCS) infrastructure, including a network, will be established to ensure decarbonisation of power supply by natural gas, assist industrial decarbonisation, and as a basis for future carbon sequestration.

EN013 Change in the organisation of energy transmission and distribution will be accelerated to cater for increases in dispersed energy sources, demand side management and storage.

EN014 Nuclear power, coal and incineration of waste will be phased out.

EN015 Biofuels will be sustainably sourced within the UK (see Forestry policy).

 

[Robbox]

I’m ordering a mini nuclear reactor, pop it on the wall in place of my old boiler.

 

[Robbox]

Wind power is great right up until the point the wind stop blowing.

The future is a combination of renewables and nuclear with shale gas and North Sea oil and gas as the fill in whilst we build enough nuclear.

Rolls Royce is building SMR’s, if instead of the Hinckley C monster, a contract had been given to RR to build SMR on the same site, we’d most likely have power coming out by now and an export business for RR.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

I’m ordering a mini nuclear reactor, pop it on the wall in place of my old boiler.

They have mock-ups of these in the Sellafield visitor's centre, the size and shape of a combi boiler.

 

[IT Minion]

Rolls Royce is building SMR’s, if instead of the Hinckley C monster, a contract had been given to RR to build SMR on the same site, we’d most likely have power coming out by now and an export business for RR.

They've been looking at them since 2015 and are aiming to start manufacture in 2030. Nuclear power plants never under run Its going to be a long time.

 

[JohnD]

Rolls Royce is building SMR’s, if instead of the Hinckley C monster, a contract had been given to RR to build SMR on the same site, we’d most likely have power coming out by now and an export business for RR.

bearing in mind, of course, that they have never actually built one, so the order would have been placed in blind faith and optimism, and financing an open-ended voyage of discovery to an unknown destination.

RR went bust after promising they could build the RB211.

They said they could build an engine for Blue Streak.

 

[JP_]

The sun and the earth.

 

[Dork Lard]

Are new sources of energy really the answer?

Natural resources cost £NOTHING but the £cost to gather, refine, store, distribute etc etc etc . . . .

It is only because of market forces (market manipulation) & taxes that can make them horrifically expensive to ordinary consumers.

Instead of investing in new sources of energy, why don't we just sort out the economics of existing sources???

 

[wobs]

big ones are going in the sea.

Dogger Bank windfarm will be 3.6GW

https://www.sserenewables.com/offshore-wind/projects/

Compare the two new multifuel Ferrybridge burner stations are about 70MW each.

The former Ferrybridge "C" (coal burning) was about 2GW at its peak.

Ferrybridge takes a lot our our waste these days.

 

[crystal ball]

bearing in mind, of course, that they have never actually built one, so the order would have been placed in blind faith and optimism, and financing an open-ended voyage of discovery to an unknown destination.

RR went bust after promising they could build the RB211.

They said they could build an engine for Blue Streak.

RR have supplied every reactor for UK submarines since Dreadnought and maintain them throughout their service

https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-and-services/defence/submarines.aspx

 

[IT Minion]

RR have supplied every reactor for UK submarines since Dreadnought and maintain them throughout their service

https://www.rolls-royce.com/products-and-services/defence/submarines.aspx

Nuclear submarines have something like 50MW plants that are supervised 24x7 by an absurdly highly trained crew.

It's easy to say that they can just scale them up and add some better safety features, but that is exactly how the first generation of civilian PWR designs was made.

Some aspects don't scale, for example in a sub sized reactor if you slam the control rods in to stop the reaction then even if you lose your cooling system you'll probably be ok. For bigger plants the core contains enough heat to melt itself down and will continue to create heat for days. That's how Fukushima failed iirc.

Increasing the size by a factor of 10 isn't trivial. Ignoring any questions about highly or lowly enriched fuels.