Wind Turbines

denso13 said:
Oh, and don't believe the MSM.
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Correct, and certainly don't believe company announcements; these will never tell you the exact truth, instead they say, in terms that mean nothing specific, whatever will get them into the least trouble.

So, why are BMW moving the production to China? Is it:

a) To embrace communism?
b) For the food?

or

c) To cut costs?
 
andy11 said:
Correct, and certainly don't believe company announcements; these will never tell you the exact truth, instead they say, in terms that mean nothing specific, whatever will get them into the least trouble.

So, why are BMW moving the production to China? Is it:

a) To embrace communism?
b) For the food?

or

c) To cut costs?
Click to expand...
Andy, read up on it.

Our electricity prices are based largely on the price of wholesale gas, however it's produced. Not on an individual source.
www.ofgem.gov.uk

What drives wholesale electricity prices in Britain?

Economist Tom Jones looks at the main influences on GB wholesale electricity prices, and the factors behind recent price trends.
www.ofgem.gov.uk www.ofgem.gov.uk
UK industrial electricity is cripplingly expensive, which is stupid if we want growth.
There is bolocks-speak in that. It says the fuel is free once the turbine's built. Well gas is free after you've made the hole - you just pump it.
Wind power is not free.

China doesn't give a stuff about western wholesale gas prices.
They have enough coal for 100 years.
Plus their labour is dirt cheap
plus they want as much control as possible over western companies and products.
 
Good to see that UK windfarms are currently producing nearly as much electricity as gas and nukes put together
 
Justin Passing said:
Andy, read up on it.

UK industrial electricity is cripplingly expensive, which is stupid if we want growth.
....
China doesn't give a stuff about western wholesale gas prices.
They have enough coal for 100 years.
...
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Yes I know all that, it is why BMW and any other manufacturers would move to China - our holier than thou green electric is more expensive than their good old coal electric. The irony is that BMW is using dirty coal to make their clean green Mini machine.
 
andy11 said:
Correct, and certainly don't believe company announcements; these will never tell you the exact truth, instead they say, in terms that mean nothing specific, whatever will get them into the least trouble.

So, why are BMW moving the production to China? Is it:

a) To embrace communism?
b) For the food?

or

c) To cut costs?
Click to expand...
China is an authoritarian state / dictatorship, it’s not communist.
 
andy11 said:
Yes I know all that, it is why BMW and any other manufacturers would move to China - our holier than thou green electric is more expensive than their good old coal electric. The irony is that BMW is using dirty coal to make their clean green Mini machine.
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Oh really. Then what's the sense in repeating the question?

What else would anyone expect. BMW are about making money, not being green. Naive to consider otherwise or try to imply it.

I thought there might be a point to your post. My mistake.
 
Once upon a time the USA was the largest western market for goods as they had the highest population. The USA was a resource rich country. So uncle Henry comes along and starts to produce cars. Everything he needs can be produced locally. A he has a larger market he sells more than are sold in other countries so when he decides to make them as cheap as possible to sell to more people he has more money available. That in turn means he sells even more. Later he can look at other countries as he did but cars there tend to be a bit different so make them there. The same applies to just about everything that was made in the USA. Ball point pens is an interesting one going on a quote I came across. The man in the USA made them cheap, sold stacks and became a multimillionaire. The bloke in the UK charged a lot more and didn't become a multimillionaire. I sometimes wonder if this sort of thing is part down to how the UK used to work. The serfs produced goods for the rich but the ball point man here has a smaller market and has to import stuff. Possibly even the pens.

China offers an enormous market a lot of which that has been lifted out of poverty. Hence part of the interest. The comment that they only produce crap is entirely incorrect. One of the first thing they did themselves was a cisco level router. More stuff has followed. They can manufacture as good as a customer wants. They don't lack in many areas these days.
 
andy11 said:
The irony is that BMW is using dirty coal
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Germany abandoned nuke a while ago. Reason the greens and popular support. The greens in power had to face up to real problems. They appear to have decided that CO2 is preferable to nuke. They can't get away with ignoring that the power is needed. Ok greens have been around but progress on wind for instance appears to be similar to ours. Facts to remember if people here start voting green. Things can only change at a certain rate. Merkel has mixed feelings about gas usage - wouldn't surprise me if nuke fitted in with that.

It seems several German nuke stations are due to close around now. That is being questioned but political and public views vary. Some are saying more nuke but as with us their nuke industry has been run down but somewhat more recently.

Germany has been importing Russian coal. Likely to be better quality than their own brown stuff. They could get it If from elsewhere. Their use of their own brown stuff may have ended yonks ago - pass. It and actually us were responsible for destroying Nordic forests. The first move was better coal.

China. I did find a report on power. 50% of their primary source is coal. They have a plan and use is reducing. From memory zero use is 2050. Some is used for heating as it has been here and still is to a limited extent. It seems they have banned use where pollution gets too high. Some gets turned to coal gas. The country covers an enormous area so clearly they have a bit of a problem doing the lot at once. China can produce "good" coal. If they produce gas from it they will also produce coke. ;) My dad would never use it as like many thought the goodness was taken out. Not enough heat. He was an intelligent bloke. A friends parents always used it as cheaper and it did produce plenty of heat. Maybe more was needed, pass.
Coking coal, also known as metallurgical coal, is used exclusively as an essential ingredient for steel production. The coal is 'baked' in a coke oven which forces out impurities to produce coke, which is a form of almost pure carbon.
It probably does burn cleaner. Furnace nuts were used for steel in the past. Small pieces of a certain grade of coal that can burn near white hot.

Then BMW going there. There is no saying what primary power source they will be using to run. Steel probably little different to elsewhere. China has a growing nuke industry. Some indication that they have been working on more advanced stations.

Sounds like Japan is going back into nuke. Each time there is a disaster all get updated. Not sure where Japan's problem fits in with that.

Station life is likely to be 80years. France has been extending life. No idea what that involved.
 
ajohn said:
They can manufacture as good as a customer wants.
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And will pay for.

If UK buyers want stainless steel that goes rusty, or screws with soft heads, or suits made of processed cellulose, China will provide them.
 
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