Forms of transport, what are the alternatives.

[ericmark]

at 50 I have no desire to buy a bicycle

Well at 70+ I have, it folds, needs to fold to get it on the train, and inside a car where one does not have a bike rack, this makes it a little heavier, and at 70+ I am not fit, so a motor in rear wheel helps, the ebike with a little peddling has got me from Shrewsbury to Welshpool nearly, had to pedal last 3 mile, but unlike the moped, it is light enough to pedal, on the flat I can pedal at about 10 MPH.

However safety is another matter, Welshpool to Newtown on the flat, and the canal tow path means motor traffic free, but Llanfair to Welshpool OK if train is running, but the road has twists and turns, steep hills so progress is slow, and Amaco barriers so if a car does hit you it's curtains.

I feel unless there is a traffic free alternative route, Amaco barriers should be banned. They are dangerous in an accident as they put the rider between a car and a hard place.

The buses at one point did start to fit bike racks, but that was short lived. Bike inside the bus is seen as being dangerous as in a crash it can hit other passengers, however wheel chairs and push chairs are not required to be tied down, in my own car carrying my mother in a wheel chair the chair had to be tied down and a special seat belt for my mother, but on the bus, nothing.

On the train during Colvid we had to put perspex screens to divide passengers into cells, so each family in their own cell, but nothing on the buses. In fact Colvid showed how public transport did not work, but maybe pool cars would, they have tried e-scooters and e-bikes in some towns where you can hire as required, if we have a standard for an e-quad then maybe it can work with hiring the likes of the citroen ami, or even having trains to take the citroen ami, we can take cars on the channel tunnel, why not other rail links? A standard battery would help, so we can swap the battery rather than charge it, like the old Bedford CA van did.

But it needs a integrated transport system, and only the government can do that, knee jerk rules and regulations are no good, it needs careful planning and looking at as a whole, yes bike racks on buses would help, and motor transport free cycle tracks, but needs integrating so where there is no cycle track, you can put the bike on the bus or train.

 

[ericmark]

20mph is not that terrible once a week

But it 20 MPH 24/7, not once a week, they tried it in North Wales, and it is crazy, with push bikes over taking cars.

 

[Avocet]

We have to look at how people got their groceries before they had private transport - the grocer's van, or local shops. I can't see local shops making much of a comeback - the economies of scale are all wrong. Supermarkets have colossal buying power and product ranges way broader than anything you'd be likely to get anywhere other than a large city centre. However, the "grocer's van" is making a big comeback. Click online and your shopping turns up at your door. I can see that becoming more popular.

But yeah, for other things, how do I get my lad to and from hockey practice and matches? He plays in goal. His kit comes in a wheeled hold-all about the same size as he is!

I do own (and use) a pushbike, but it has replaced very few car journeys, simply because I'm limited in what I can carry on it. In fact, arguably, it has created as many car journeys as it has saved, because sometimes we put it (and other bikes) on the bike rack and take the car to somewhere we've not cycled before, for a change of scenery.

The driverless pod is (I believe) unlikely to be anything I'll see in my lifetime.

Ultimately, whilst the hardcore environmentalists would have no cars at all, I think compromise is the key. We already hold some cards. Remote working is a realistic proposition for many office workers (I've been doing it for 20+ years, in fact). Park-and-ride schemes could also be utilised FAR more effectively than they currently are. My situation is a bit different, in that I live in a remote rural area. The problem with using the train, is that if it's going to cost me £12 to park at the station for a day, and by the time I get to the station, my car is already comfy and warm, it just kills the incentive stone-dead. In Britain (despite having invented the bleedin' railway) we (or at least the Tories) are obsessed with trying to monetise what is essentially a public service. Even at today's fuel prices, the car makes economic sense.

I think all we can do at present, is reduce use, reduce weight and power, (thereby reducing fuel and material use) and keep working on technologies to minimise the environmental and social impact. I don't see demand for private, covered transport going away...

 

[Avocet]

Well at 70+ I have, it folds, needs to fold to get it on the train, and inside a car where one does not have a bike rack, this makes it a little heavier, and at 70+ I am not fit, so a motor in rear wheel helps, the ebike with a little peddling has got me from Shrewsbury to Welshpool nearly, had to pedal last 3 mile, but unlike the moped, it is light enough to pedal, on the flat I can pedal at about 10 MPH.

However safety is another matter, Welshpool to Newtown on the flat, and the canal tow path means motor traffic free, but Llanfair to Welshpool OK if train is running, but the road has twists and turns, steep hills so progress is slow, and Amaco barriers so if a car does hit you it's curtains.

I feel unless there is a traffic free alternative route, Amaco barriers should be banned. They are dangerous in an accident as they put the rider between a car and a hard place.

The buses at one point did start to fit bike racks, but that was short lived. Bike inside the bus is seen as being dangerous as in a crash it can hit other passengers, however wheel chairs and push chairs are not required to be tied down, in my own car carrying my mother in a wheel chair the chair had to be tied down and a special seat belt for my mother, but on the bus, nothing.

On the train during Colvid we had to put perspex screens to divide passengers into cells, so each family in their own cell, but nothing on the buses. In fact Colvid showed how public transport did not work, but maybe pool cars would, they have tried e-scooters and e-bikes in some towns where you can hire as required, if we have a standard for an e-quad then maybe it can work with hiring the likes of the citroen ami, or even having trains to take the citroen ami, we can take cars on the channel tunnel, why not other rail links? A standard battery would help, so we can swap the battery rather than charge it, like the old Bedford CA van did.

But it needs a integrated transport system, and only the government can do that, knee jerk rules and regulations are no good, it needs careful planning and looking at as a whole, yes bike racks on buses would help, and motor transport free cycle tracks, but needs integrating so where there is no cycle track, you can put the bike on the bus or train.

First of all, "respect"! You're doing FAR more than your fair share at 70+!

With regard to buses, the debate about securing wheelchairs and pushchairs, has raged for many years. The general position is that if the vehicle can carry standees, then seat belts (and wheelchair tie-downs) are fairly pointless. In recent years, there has been a move to transport wheelchairs rear-facing, against a head-and-back support, at least, but they take up a lot of space and that's often full of luggage, pushchairs, standees, etc.

I've seen the e-scooters in various cities, and they look like a good laugh, but when you actually think "OK, I'm gonna have a go at this", it all goes pear-shaped. Scan the QR code, download the app, sign up for an account, find proof of address / age... by the time you've done all that, you could just take a taxi or bus! Plus, of course, the times you'd be using them are usually in an unfamiliar city centre.
I absolutely agree about segregated infrastructure for cyclists, but no government would have the money. The outlay, to do it properly, would be colossal. Yes, Holland has largely done it, but they had the advantage of having some (not so) nice German chap come along 80-odd years ago and level most of their cities so that they could rebuild them with wider streets. Armco works very well. We just need to have the cyclists on the other side of it!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I've seen the e-scooters in various cities, and they look like a good laugh, but when you actually think "OK, I'm gonna have a go at this", it all goes pear-shaped. Scan the QR code, download the app, sign up for an account, find proof of address / age... by the time you've done all that, you could just take a taxi or bus! Plus, of course, the times you'd be using them are usually in an unfamiliar city centre.

If you travel to the likes of Bristol the rental scooters are everywhere, they're more aimed at the locals rather than visitors presumably, same with the rental E-bikes in Exeter clearly very popular they're seen all over.

 

[Avocet]

If you travel to the likes of Bristol the rental scooters are everywhere, they're more aimed at the locals rather than visitors presumably, same with the rental E-bikes in Exeter clearly very popular they're seen all over.

Funny enough, it WAS Bristol where I was thinking about hiring one, as it's quite hilly!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I'd not be keen on hiring one if I was unfamiliar with the roads/routes. People seem to whizz about on them with gay abandon, whether that's because they actually quite confident or absolutely clueless I don't know. Having visited Bristol for a few days in the summer as soon as I realised I was in a scooter friendly City I was soon aware of their presence, I don't think I'd be that perturbed if/when they become legal everywhere.

 

[DiyNutJob]

But it 20 MPH 24/7, not once a week, they tried it in North Wales, and it is crazy, with push bikes over taking cars.

You must be a race driver to be driving 24/7. If you get with the times and use the modern internet more, then you are affected by the 20mph once a week (or even less frequent) when you go to get the groceries.

 

[ericmark]

I don't mind using the e-bike in dry weather, but wish it had just a little more power, I have to pause in the grave yard entrance for both bike and myself to cool down and catch our breath, before attempting the final hill, and I can't ride it out of my drive, as drive too steep.

Wife's e-bike the motor is mid mounted so works through the gears, and is better at hill climbing, but hers does not fold.

How much is down to my weight not sure, clearly if I was lighter the motor would work better. But around 4 MPH is minimum speed at which I can balance sitting on the seat and peddling, maybe could do it at 3 MPH, but it means lower gears do not help, as can't balance at lower speeds, also the motor starts to lose torque at about 6 MPH, so once the speed drops below 6 MPH very quickly it is a get off and walk situation.

The law says 250 watt on a continuous basis, my bike clearly can't produce 250 watt at low speed, likely 350 watt at higher speeds, but not when really required. The Golfa hill out of Welshpool I can just about do, it is a long drag and I am about at my limit even with the motor.

What is needed is more integration, if I could take an e-scooter on the bus, and use it legally then may be, but as it stands the town bus does not integrate it times with the two trains in Welshpool, it does not even call into the heritage station, and Welshpool is not the only town with this problem.

Where I use to live in Buckley the Bus service which linked the train to the town was fined for waiting for the train which was late, this is clearly stupid.

 

[Avocet]

I don't mind using the e-bike in dry weather, but wish it had just a little more power, I have to pause in the grave yard entrance for both bike and myself to cool down and catch our breath, before attempting the final hill, and I can't ride it out of my drive, as drive too steep.

Wife's e-bike the motor is mid mounted so works through the gears, and is better at hill climbing, but hers does not fold.

How much is down to my weight not sure, clearly if I was lighter the motor would work better. But around 4 MPH is minimum speed at which I can balance sitting on the seat and peddling, maybe could do it at 3 MPH, but it means lower gears do not help, as can't balance at lower speeds, also the motor starts to lose torque at about 6 MPH, so once the speed drops below 6 MPH very quickly it is a get off and walk situation.

The law says 250 watt on a continuous basis, my bike clearly can't produce 250 watt at low speed, likely 350 watt at higher speeds, but not when really required. The Golfa hill out of Welshpool I can just about do, it is a long drag and I am about at my limit even with the motor.

What is needed is more integration, if I could take an e-scooter on the bus, and use it legally then may be, but as it stands the town bus does not integrate it times with the two trains in Welshpool, it does not even call into the heritage station, and Welshpool is not the only town with this problem.

Where I use to live in Buckley the Bus service which linked the train to the town was fined for waiting for the train which was late, this is clearly stupid.

As you say, by law, you're limited to 250 Watts, but there's no limit on torque. Some of the newer e-mountain bikes have 80Nm of torque, compared to the 40Nm that used to be more common.

 

[ericmark]

As you say, by law, you're limited to 250 Watts, but there's no limit on torque. Some of the newer e-mountain bikes have 80Nm of torque, compared to the 40Nm that used to be more common.

If I had bought the bike with time to look around likely I would not have selected the one I am using, it was bought as the DVLA had not renewed my licence on time, it took them 10 months to renew it, so I had no transport to look around, so bought the bike I have local second hand as a quick fix for having no licence.

I have found it being folding has been an advantage, likely I would not have selected a folding bike had I had the option, it has large wheels, so stable, now has a rear rack, and I have taken it a few times on the train, but it will not fit inside most of the carriages, it has to be left on the veranda it will not go through the door even when bent in the middle. Have to fold it, as too long otherwise, and can't close the gates on the veranda. At 24 kg it is a heavy lump to lift onto the train, or into the car, but will fit inside the old Honda Jazz between the front and rear seats, and in boot of Kia Sorento with one seat folded. Easier with Kia to carry on bike rack, but then there is a security issue.

Also whole idea of bike is not to use car. It defeats the whole idea if I need a car to carry it. But from now to Easter trains not running, and in the main carry in the car when some thing had gone wrong, be it started to rain, or flat battery, at least with the bike I can remove the battery and take it for charging without taking the whole bike, can't really do that with a car.

But back to integrated transport system, why don't we have bike racks on our buses?

 

[Avocet]

If I had bought the bike with time to look around likely I would not have selected the one I am using, it was bought as the DVLA had not renewed my licence on time, it took them 10 months to renew it, so I had no transport to look around, so bought the bike I have local second hand as a quick fix for having no licence.

I have found it being folding has been an advantage, likely I would not have selected a folding bike had I had the option, it has large wheels, View attachment 290794 so stable, now has a rear rack, and I have taken it a few times on the train, but it will not fit inside most of the carriages, it has to be left on the veranda View attachment 290795 it will not go through the door even when bent in the middle. Have to fold it, as too long otherwise, and can't close the gates on the veranda. At 24 kg it is a heavy lump to lift onto the train, or into the car, but will fit inside the old Honda Jazz between the front and rear seats, and in boot of Kia Sorento with one seat folded. Easier with Kia to carry on bike rack, but then there is a security issue.

Also whole idea of bike is not to use car. It defeats the whole idea if I need a car to carry it. But from now to Easter trains not running, and in the main carry in the car when some thing had gone wrong, be it started to rain, or flat battery, at least with the bike I can remove the battery and take it for charging without taking the whole bike, can't really do that with a car.

But back to integrated transport system, why don't we have bike racks on our buses?

Yes, but how much torque does it have? 24kg is immense - even by e-bike standards! My wife's e-bike weighs just over 11kg.

I don't know why buses don't have bike racks. Most of them are rear-engined, so I guess they'd get in the way of the engine access. Plus, of course, the time taken to put a bike in the rack and secure it, added to the time stopped at a bus stop, and then the time taken to remove it again at the destination stop. With half a dozen bikes, you could probably just about paralyse the bus service! Then there are the liability issues when it comes to damage to the bikes.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Yes, but how much torque does it have? 24kg is immense - even by e-bike standards! My wife's e-bike weighs just over 11kg.

I don't know why buses don't have bike racks. Most of them are rear-engined, so I guess they'd get in the way of the engine access. Plus, of course, the time taken to put a bike in the rack and secure it, added to the time stopped at a bus stop, and then the time taken to remove it again at the destination stop. With half a dozen bikes, you could probably just about paralyse the bus service! Then there are the liability issues when it comes to damage to the bikes.

all good points, but they seem to manage well in europe

 

[RandomGrinch]

I don't know why buses don't have bike racks.

There was a small group looking at the possibility of front mounted racks (following some other countries examples) in Bath.
The group did not get very far ...

Front of Bus Cycle Racks, the DVSA says no.

[Foreword 8th of June 2015: There are moves afoot to try and create a working group of Local Authorities, MPs, the DfT, Bus Companies, and hopefully a co-operative DVSA. Should you wish to be invol…

walkridebath.org.uk

Although Madrid, for example has rear mounted racks:

The City of Madrid installs bike racks on buses, and it’s easier (and cheaper) than you think!

ecf.com

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I think a lot of the problem with transport issues is that we are always looking for a 1 off solution to all the issues.

To me, there is a big difference between big towns and cities type of transport versus rural and long distance types.

All have different issues, and answers