Forms of transport, what are the alternatives.

[freddiemercurystwin]

@ericmark I don't have a lot of experience of e-bikes though we have a Raleigh folding one which cost about £500 S/H which seems to have tons of power/torque compared with a Brompton e-bike which cost well over £3K new and is absolutly rubbish. I can get up any stupid hill round these parts on the Raleigh (Devon seaside town so V steep hills in parts) the Brompton it's a real struggle. Brompton's are just absolute rubbish as e-bikes, sure they may be one of the easiest and compact to fold and maybe the lightest too on the market but absolutly everythng is a compomise because of it. The Raliegh is a pleasure to ride in comparison. I'd get yourself down to a few local e-bike shops if you can, they'll likely have something more suitable than what you have.

 

[mointainwalker]

all good points, but they seem to manage well in europe

I don't ever recall seeing any bike carriers on regular municipal buses in Europe. In holiday resorts buses sometimes have a trailer, but they have much less traffic to deal with, and less pressure on schedules.

Edit: read the Madrid report and it is:

a) Tiny numbers ( two bikes per bus)
b) Extremely selective. Two routes: City -centre to airport : 99% will be terminus to terminus and so no hold-ups in between. Guessing ( yes, I admit ) that it will be similar on the other route where one terminus is a large , green recreation area.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I don't ever recall seeing any bike carriers on regular municipal buses in Europe. In holiday resorts buses sometimes have a trailer, but they have much less traffic to deal with, and less pressure on schedules.

Edit: read the Madrid report and it is:

a) Tiny numbers ( two bikes per bus)
b) Extremely selective. Two routes: City -centre to airport : 99% will be terminus to terminus and so no hold-ups in between. Guessing ( yes, I admit ) that it will be similar on the other route where one terminus is a large , green recreation area.

Netherlands and Germany spring to mind . The German ones in particular were well used and probably carried around up to 10 bikes per bus? In various areas of Germany too, so not just a local thing.

Also USA, but have only seen them in Seattle area.

 

[Avocet]

Gosh! Well, I'd never have thought it viable, I have to admit! As Mointainwalker says, that report only relates to a couple of very specific cases, but fair play, I guess. I must say, I wouldn't fancy being run over by a bus at the best of times, but a bus with a front-mounted bike rack, could cause particularly nasty injuries! I can see it's trying to address the "door-to-door" problem for transport. However, I still favour something like the Citroen Ami - essentially, a souped-up mobility scooter for personal urban transport.

 

[ericmark]

In North Wales at one point the Bus Mold to Ruthin could carry bikes, but it seemed not used, so racks removed, the train officially will carry bikes, charged as a dog, think £3.50, but OK with stops with a platform, but those without a platform would be very hard to get them on and off.

 

[Avocet]

In North Wales at one point the Bus Mold to Ruthin could carry bikes, but it seemed not used, so racks removed, the train officially will carry bikes, charged as a dog, think £3.50, but OK with stops with a platform, but those without a platform would be very hard to get them on and off.

You have train stops without a platform?!

I did, a couple of years ago, take a car to have some work done in Carlisle. That's about 40 miles from me. I chucked my bike in the back, dropped the car off, and cycled to the station, where I go the train from Carlisle to Whitehaven and then cycled home. I think that's a route operated by Northern Rail. There was no charge for the bike.

 

[Brigadier]

My wife's e-bike weighs just over 11kg.

Wow! That would be featherweight for even a high-end non-electric bike.

 

[Avocet]

Wow! That would be featherweight for even a high-end non-electric bike.

It's a thing of beauty indeed! It's even lighter than my hard tail (non-electric) mountain bike, which weighs 13kg!
Hers is a Colnago e-grav. (A gravel bike). When she bought it, it was pretty much the lightest out there, but there are lighter ones now. 250 Watt, 40 Nm of torque, but the range isn't fantastic if you use the assistance to its full extent. It has three settings. The lowest setting does little more than to offset the extra weight. The middle setting gives very definite assistance, and the highest setting is "cheating"! It's brill. However, it has a range of about 40 miles on the lowest setting, but you'll be lucky to get half that out of it on the highest setting. The motor is in the rear hub, rather than the bottom bracket, which makes changing a rear tyre a bit more of a pain, but saves the chain and gears from a lot of wear and tear. The battery is in the downtube. Other than its "fat" rear hub, you wouldn't know it was an e-bike to look at it.

 

[Brigadier]

I would hazard a guess that the primary reason cycling as a means of getting around (as opposed to for leisure) is not more popular is that other traffic makes the experience unpleasant at best, through to downright terrifying.
If I had my way, I'd make a dedicated national cycle route system for commuters, with properly-surfaced, drained, lit, maintained, and monitored (policed even) roadways between every village, town, and city across the country. Like our current roads, but solely for cyclists, be their bikes self-powered, or electrically-assisted.
Sure, it would cost a lot of initial outlay, but wear and tear would be low, so this could be a project that would benefit the nation for a century or more.

 

[Avocet]

I would hazard a guess that the primary reason cycling as a means of getting around (as opposed to for leisure) is not more popular is that other traffic makes the experience unpleasant at best, through to downright terrifying.
If I had my way, I'd make a dedicated national cycle route system for commuters, with properly-surfaced, drained, lit, maintained, and monitored (policed even) roadways between every village, town, and city across the country. Like our current roads, but solely for cyclists, be their bikes self-powered, or electrically-assisted.
Sure, it would cost a lot of initial outlay, but wear and tear would be low, so this could be a project that would benefit the nation for a century or more.

It's a nice idea, but we just don't have the money. I live in North West Cumbria. All very pretty, but hilly, of course. However, 100+ years ago, it was intensely industrial (iron and coal mining mainly). The local area is thick with track beds from long-abandoned railway lines, which are crying out to be made into a network of cycle paths. However, our main one (which is also a disused railway line), is rapidly falling into disrepair. We can't even maintain the cycle paths we have, let alone put in new ones! Along much of it, tree roots have pushed up through the tarmac, creating really nasty, sharp ridges. Basically, it's untenable for a road bike and serious commuting.

The other problem, is that even if you DID put in such routes, the hardcore "Lycra Lout" brigade wouldn't use them anyway.

 

[Brigadier]

It's a nice idea, but we just don't have the money.

We've got the money; it's the will that is lacking.

The other problem, is that even if you DID put in such routes, the hardcore "Lycra Lout" brigade wouldn't use them anyway.

My proposal is not for them; it is for the people who would commute, do a bit of light shopping, visit friends etc on their cycle, but go by car anyway because they are put off by the cars, vans, lorries etc, and don't want to splosh through the ruts and mud of the canal towpath.

 

[ericmark]

My local railway is 2'6" heritage so bikes are charged for, but at £3.50 for the day I am not worried about that, and as I volunteer I could get around the charge by storing a bike at the station.

However as to getting from A to B the bike is easier than walking, and at my age a walk to Welshpool and back 16 miles is out, but on the e-bike can do it, could likely also do it on non electric, but low speed makes it more dangerous.

As to amount of assistance, I did the route Newtown to Welshpool on the tow path, most of the way without turning on the motor, I did nearly end up in the water when my rucksack hit the bridge, ducked my head down, did not think of metal frame of rucksack (doubles as a chair) hitting bridge.

But wife's bike, mid motor is so different to mine. The 5 levels with mine are 5 speeds which the motor cuts in, level 1 is around 6 MPH and by time I am going that slow, it's a bit late, so level 2 around 10 MPH is the normal setting, so I push hard on hills, and can free wheel down, on the flat in the main motor does not cut in, but wife's is down to how hard the motor pushes, so at any of the three levels on the flat you need to work, it is rare I can exceed the 16 MPH limit where it stops, mainly due to gear ratios.

Mine has mountain bike tyres, so tow path not problem, I did part of the Shropshire way, and could ride over tree roots so some extent, but going from the Shropshire Union on the Montgomery canal

around stage 14 I found stiles on the tow path, getting a 24 kg mountain bike over a stile is not easy.

The little round badge on stile clearly says Shropshire Way, well they may have stiles on tow paths in Shropshire, but not where I have ridden tow paths in the past in Cheshire.

After the second stile I gave up and phoned wife to pick me up, so still have a section of the Montgomery canal not explored.

 

[Avocet]

We've got the money; it's the will that is lacking.



My proposal is not for them; it is for the people who would commute, do a bit of light shopping, visit friends etc on their cycle, but go by car anyway because they are put off by the cars, vans, lorries etc, and don't want to splosh through the ruts and mud of the canal towpath.

Looking at the state of the rest of the country, I'm not sure we DO have the money any more, to be honest? Sure, as the world's 5th largest economy we SHOULD have had the money, but when you look at our NHS, our utilities, our waste water treatment, our power generation, the food banks, etc, you start to wonder.

I think that if we were to make such a large investment in cycling infrastructure, I'd prefer better segregation between bikes and motor vehicles though. If we are to realise the benefits of motorised traffic as well as non-motorised, I think the less interactiion between the two, the better!

 

[ericmark]

The thing is my bike is motorised, and I want best of both, I want a bike which is allowed on cycle tracks, so power output and speed is limited, we have 5 speeds it seems, 4 MPH allowed on the walkways, 8 MPH can have 4 wheels and used without a licence, 16 MPH can have 2 wheels and used without a licence, 28 MPH needs a licence but classed as a quad, so many items do not need to comply in the same way as vehicles over 28 MPH, seems the Citroen Ami falls into this category.

You need to be class as disabled for some vehicles, but a bike is allowed to travel at 4 MPH without peddling. Normally called walk assist. Not sure about three wheeled vehicles, but the quad can get away without the crash protection, so can be much lighter, as can a motorcycle, I assume this includes three wheel vehicles, but many old vehicles can't be permitted on British roads if they we ever scrapped, even if rescued and brought back to new condition.

The Scammell Scarab for example, a few were refurbished after being officially scrapped, but can only be transported to shows, they are not allowed on the road. No brakes on front wheel means can't be re-registered.

Visit The national waterways museum in Ellesmere Port and they have tow path tugs to put the narrow boats before narrow boats had motors built in, but most tow paths today would not permit their use.

I have seen Saturn one of the few horse drawn narrow boats have problems with anti motorbike barriers, which also stop horses. And many push bikes and their trailers.

For a push bike 24 kg is heavy, mainly due to having a motor and battery, wife's not quite so heavy as does not fold, but still 22 kg, putting them on their rear wheel to get through a kissing gate is not really an option, and lifting it high enough to pass through these is not really an option. It seems local authorities don't mind cycle tracks, as long as no one but a select few can used them, even pedestrians have problems they can size and crush motorcycles using cycle paths, which must surely deter people using them on cycle tracks, in Rhyl the barriers have a gate with a radar lock on them for wheel chairs, however only way my mother could unlock it was to give me the key, she could not unlock it without leaving the wheel chair, and as an amputee that was not an option.

 

[mointainwalker]

Netherlands and Germany spring to mind . The German ones in particular were well used and probably carried around up to 10 bikes per bus? In various areas of Germany too, so not just a local thing.

Also USA, but have only seen them in Seattle area.

I know Germany well and read the German press every day, but have never seen a picture/reference to this, which - given Germany's keenness on reducing car usage - would be strange. Do you have any photos/direct references to this ?