General Election 4th July

[JohnD]

NI is specifically an employment tax. So not the same as an income tax, although, to the ordinary working person, it feels the same.

Tory supporters are predominantly over retirement age so they like changes that make pensioners better off.

There is no particular reason why people receiving one state benefit should pay tax on it, but not others with the same income.

The government revenue from NI and from Income Tax are two large sources of government funds. You can cut one and increase the other depending who you want to favour.

It is reasonable to argue that there is no point in having two taxes, just have one, but the maze of allowances and cutoff points is a bit of a tangle.

And if income tax was increased to make up the shortfall from NI, some people would complain that their tax had gone up.

 

[ajohn]

I saw the Latest Tory TV add yesterday for the 1st time. Sunak's I promise that Labour will increase taxation seems to have worn off. We heard way to much of it in TV debates.

So now it's graphics. As many similar ideas as they can dream up. Very project fear really. Sunak could have put the same across in a speech instead but maybe they thought that would be a bad idea. in the real commercial world they could probably be sued.

Starmer came clearer in an interview. It concerned things that they can't do that crop up and might be expected from Labour. Labour and the Tory are pretty similar in these areas really. We can't afford it. His aim is to get growth back to where it was when they were last in power correctly pointing out that this will make billions available. Both want this. Methods differ.

 

[Justin Passing]

I don't know who to vote for. I'm in a Lib or Con area.
Had enough of the tories. Liberals are a bit of a waste of time and run by a tosser.
They each have a few worthy aims and plausible methods, but nobody's saying how to get much growth.
Oh and - they all lie.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Only 4 more days of this old tosh to go, then everyone can shelve their hopes and expectations and reflect on how they've been had. Again.

 

[transam]

Got sorted of accosted this morning out side my place cleaning my van out by some liberal canvasser

Nice lady and she was fit

About all I recall after listening to her for 5 mins

If she had played her cards right well

Mind you that’s her loss

 

[ajohn]

everyone can shelve their hopes and expectations and reflect on how they've been had. Again.

Labour do have some different ideas on improving growth and are clearly saying they can not make rapid changes just ease certain problems. Pretty honest of them.

One of the interesting factors is that they appear to have a large campaigning fund, A lot of it from business. Also the seminar Rachel held for the money brigade. It was well received. Sunak held something or the other and hardly anybody attended. She pulled in lots.

They also have aims to try and help small and medium sized businesses including manufacture. They appear to be money source related.Might be to try and get the merchant bank lot interested. The experts in this area unlike our other types of bank.

There is also something they can only do if they are in power. Look closely at the books to see if funding can be shifted around.

People and training has it's interesting aspects as well. Train what we need. While it's great to rabbit on about areas that need certain qualification levels some aren't going to get them or enough of them.

Council tax - pass. Currently they are being asked for ideas to improve efficiency. Can't see a party change altering that. Reducing department sizes gov etc, Starmer has direct experience of that. In fact he organised one.

Reform. Farage holding a very Trumpish large party meeting with his followers. Broadcasted on the BBC including ~10mins of him lambasting them in all sorts of ways. Also licence fee must end. Interesting area to choose as his usually are. He also went through Iraq, Libia and Ukraine wars. How wonderful he is concerning prediction the problems they caused. I'd love to see direct proof of all of this and what he actually said. The new buzz word is end games thanks to Gaza.

 

[JonathanM]

I've only just learnt that until 1969 you had to be 21 to vote. Apparently the UK was the first major democratic country to lower the voting age to 18.

It didn't save Harold Wilson in 1970, though.

 

[ajohn]

Harold Wilson

A much maligned strong leader who had to cope with a number of tricky issues even within his own party. You should read the lot

Harold Wilson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

LOL he even started off the EU rebate on contributions. Also the country was run on a trade balance basis.

Interesting graphic on the box recently. It split of pensioner, earners and then the very bottom end of those and others, Those in the pits in other words, Can't remember all of the numbers but pensioners show a money gain. Earners a bit more. Those in the pits £1,400 short.

 

[Doug99]

Reform. Farage holding a very Trumpish large party meeting with his followers. Broadcasted on the BBC including ~10mins of him lambasting them in all sorts of ways. Also licence fee must end. Interesting area to choose as his usually are. He also went through Iraq, Libia and Ukraine wars. How wonderful he is concerning prediction the problems they caused. I'd love to see direct proof of all of this and what he actually said. The new buzz word is end games thanks to Gaza.

BBC tend to fact check everything that's said during this campaign, so Farage would be confident of what he has said in the past.

 

[ajohn]

Some will love this. Done and dusted to me. We have a pot of money how to spend it. Far more important.
S&P cut Britain's credit rating by two notches from 'AAA' to 'AA' after the 2016 Brexit referendum decision and warned of another possible downgrade following former Prime Minister Liz Truss's 'mini budget' huge tax cut programme announced in 2022.4 Apr 2024

The Truss aspect was scrapped quickly so that cut never happened. The link has been updated. Some might like to read it but the real world is too much for some

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/next-uk-government-faces-credit-rating-challenge-sp-says-2024-04-04/

They'd rather rave on about invasions and all sorts rather than accept the facts. LOL and vote for Farage.

 

[mrrusty]

I'm surprised a major speech for Reform made by a Muslim businessman and the son of immigrants gets zero press coverage in MSM! Surely it adds something to the debate?

 

[Odds]

Whether they are called manifestos or contracts, the documents published by political parties ahead of an election are rather less substantial than their many pages would suggest. They are full of best-case scenarios, undetailed proposals and dubious costings, and it is hard to picture the impact each party would have on the UK if they followed through with their pitches. So Julian Benson@the Guardian fed party literature into the political strategy video game Democracy 4, to see how these policies might play out. The results were "interesting"...

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I'm surprised a major speech for Reform made by a Muslim businessman and the son of immigrants gets zero press coverage in MSM! Surely it adds something to the debate?

He might withdraw his funding if they ever gain power and the more moderate side of the party are given the push ...

 

[ajohn]

They are full of best-case scenarios, undetailed proposals and dubious costings, and it is hard to picture the impact each party would have on the UK if they followed through with their pitches

They have to be viewed as ideas and targets. That way it's possible to consider what they actually achieve. LOL and there is only one way of finding out.

Things that get mentioned on the news need looking at carefully or you may get sucked in. Currently the Tory are extremely weak in this area. Inflation for instance does what it does. Nothing is down to them in that area. Real growth - well the figures show what they show. Austerity and dept reduction shows what it shows. Very high taxation with increases locked in for some years shows something else. Then the wide variety of noises that come out of their MP's on just about anything. Signs of a party in trouble but it was there when they weren't.

LOL Forgot Thatcher economics still figures. Pure and simple - no rethoughts

 

[Odds]

They have to be viewed as ideas and targets. That way it's possible to consider what they actually achieve. LOL and there is only one way of finding out.

True, but i think somebody here already mentioned anyone would be mad to go in to #10 DS now, considering the problems facing the UK - however, a recent report suggests inflation will come down and the economy will improve in the latter half of this year, so they'll certainly take credit for that. Owen Jones reporting from Canvey Island tells of the Tory faithful losing their religion and climbing aboard the Reform bandwagon. Sales of snakeoil have rocketed in the region as the residents pin their hopes on Far age to save them from the migrant hordes swarming across the beaches.

I thought it amusing to read the political simulation for the three main parties all saw them fail to curb spending and save public services from further cuts. He ought to include Reform in that calculation, by the way...they're currently polling at 17%; only 3 points behind the Tories.