HETAS Engineers a bunch of lying so and so's....

Deek47 said:
Have something against free speech? Don't like it - don't read it . . . you have that choice.

noseall has a good point. And once personal insults begin, then you know the 'insulter' has lost the argument. So predictable.

As regards to qualified "engineers", we lived in a house (built 1940's) in which the gas meter was due for replacement. Official gas-men called and did said installation. Smelt of gas once they'd gone, but considered that as they'd just pulled pipes off and re-fitted, it would go after a day or so. It didn't.

Called them back, and this time a supervisor oversaw the operation. Seems they had installed a washer the wrong way round, "All fine now Sir!" Says the supervisor. A week later they were back to do the job again due to a leak from the same joint, in the same meter.

In comparison, and not blowing my own brass orifice (I just like doing things properly), I fitted some gas lighting to our boat (we lived aboard), and got praise for the finish and fittings from a qualified marine surveyor. That was over thirty years ago. Today, I would not be allowed to do such an installation as there would be no paperwork from a qualified gas installer to validate any insurance cover needed for same. Who would I trust to do such work? No-one. But I would have to pay the piper - and then go round checking everything myself.

We live now in a rented house built 1950's, an ex-farm workers 'cottage' in rural Shropshire. There's a solid fuel Rayburn in the kitchen, and an open standard 16" fireplace in the sitting room. We like old stoves, and brought our old faithful - a French De-Ville of 1930's vintage - and popped it into the sitting room with a plate set into the aperture and the gasses going straight up the chimney behind same. I heaved it out twice a year for a DIY chimney sweep (shock horror!) and it had worked and performed perfectly for a couple of years burning fuel more efficiently, and reducing draughts induce by the open hearth. How on Earth did we get away with it - and still alive with no chimney fires?

Then the Landlord phoned one day to see if we still had the open fire, or did we have a certification of installation for the Frenchy, as they were being harassed by their insurers for compliance certificates on all their properties. It might be a problem for them without certification. So out came the Frenchy, and now it resides under the stairs, a hidden ornament, victim of bureaucracy. In place we have more fuel being burnt for a given heat output, and more draughts. I did get a quote from a registered heating engineer for a flue liner (there never has been one), and without stove this would be in the region of £800 - easy roof access and a straight fall, included reg. plate cap and cowl. Then we saw some inset stoves at reasonable prices on the 'net below 5KW output and not needing a liner. I was tempted.

Then I stumbled on this thread, read all twelve pages from start until now, and guess what? I'm spending my money on something else, and all the certified 'Johnnies' can go without my custom. If I can't do it myself - you ain't gonna do it either.
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Naww that's a lovely story. Welcome to the forum. Are we to expect more long and rambling posts from you in the future?
 
Deek47 said:
Have something against free speech? Don't like it - don't read it . . . you have that choice.

noseall has a good point. And once personal insults begin, then you know the 'insulter' has lost the argument. So predictable.

As regards to qualified "engineers", we lived in a house (built 1940's) in which the gas meter was due for replacement. Official gas-men called and did said installation. Smelt of gas once they'd gone, but considered that as they'd just pulled pipes off and re-fitted, it would go after a day or so. It didn't.

Called them back, and this time a supervisor oversaw the operation. Seems they had installed a washer the wrong way round, "All fine now Sir!" Says the supervisor. A week later they were back to do the job again due to a leak from the same joint, in the same meter.

In comparison, and not blowing my own brass orifice (I just like doing things properly), I fitted some gas lighting to our boat (we lived aboard), and got praise for the finish and fittings from a qualified marine surveyor. That was over thirty years ago. Today, I would not be allowed to do such an installation as there would be no paperwork from a qualified gas installer to validate any insurance cover needed for same. Who would I trust to do such work? No-one. But I would have to pay the piper - and then go round checking everything myself.

We live now in a rented house built 1950's, an ex-farm workers 'cottage' in rural Shropshire. There's a solid fuel Rayburn in the kitchen, and an open standard 16" fireplace in the sitting room. We like old stoves, and brought our old faithful - a French De-Ville of 1930's vintage - and popped it into the sitting room with a plate set into the aperture and the gasses going straight up the chimney behind same. I heaved it out twice a year for a DIY chimney sweep (shock horror!) and it had worked and performed perfectly for a couple of years burning fuel more efficiently, and reducing draughts induce by the open hearth. How on Earth did we get away with it - and still alive with no chimney fires?

Then the Landlord phoned one day to see if we still had the open fire, or did we have a certification of installation for the Frenchy, as they were being harassed by their insurers for compliance certificates on all their properties. It might be a problem for them without certification. So out came the Frenchy, and now it resides under the stairs, a hidden ornament, victim of bureaucracy. In place we have more fuel being burnt for a given heat output, and more draughts. I did get a quote from a registered heating engineer for a flue liner (there never has been one), and without stove this would be in the region of £800 - easy roof access and a straight fall, included reg. plate cap and cowl. Then we saw some inset stoves at reasonable prices on the 'net below 5KW output and not needing a liner. I was tempted.

Then I stumbled on this thread, read all twelve pages from start until now, and guess what? I'm spending my money on something else, and all the certified 'Johnnies' can go without my custom. If I can't do it myself - you ain't gonna do it either.
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So, you're real issue lies with the bureaucratic, litigiousness nature of the insurance sector but they're not interested and won't listen! Hey, I know, just vent your anger and frustration at your average heating engineer by way of this board!
Feel better now?
 
What has run through this thread like 'Blackpool' runs through rock has been (in general) quite a lot of sniping at those wishing to 'do it themselves'. There are instances where DIY is not the preferred route for both practical and legal reasons, and some of the posts have been at length in describing the wheres and why-fors. I may be wrong, but it does appear that those few who have taken some time to expand on their comments are keen to advise and aid in understanding. Rather like so many Health and Safety protocols that have swept a degree of commonsense aside, the levels of bureaucracy have created chains of practice that some might take advantage of in decrying any competent person from doing perfectly adequate work, and but for a piece of paper that qualifies some, those competent, but unqualified persons are left to the mercy of some qualified, but incompetent 'engineers' such as our gas 'fitters' who failed miserably in their allotted tasks. A story - but a true one.

For those posts giving details of 'reasons why', I for one thank you. My knowledge has been widened. I hope others have a nice day.

Two main posts have said all I needed to. Good day gents.
 
Deek47 - your comment above describes exactly what I've just been through on asking about an electrical matter elsewhere on this site! Your description matches my situation there exactly (like making out you need a part P qualification to dig a trench for the sparky... simply nonsense, and my qualified sparky and BR are perfectly happy with me being the labourer!). All sorts of unpleasant assumptions were made (in fact I simply blocked one person so I don't have to read his insinuations - life is too short. There was a lot more to my story which would have explained why the allegations are misplaced, but peple shouldn't end up feeling they need half an hour explaining to justify themselves to embittered keyboard warriors), but a couple of people were very helpful. It seemed to be much the same trade reaction trying to frighten off anyone doing DIY - which considering this is a DIY forum is a bit sad. It's quite right to warn people about something dangerous, but a lot of this seems to be end up as pure protectionism, but is only present in some parts/trades of the site. Having said that, in my last house I had a woodstove (all our heating and hot water was wood heated as no gas mains there and I had quite literally unlimited clean waste wood available then) fitted by a HETAS guy in his 60s who was real old school -a fantastic job, and fair price, so much so I bought him a bottle of whisky too as a thank you.
 
What a jolly good job people can get Franco-Belge flueless gas fires, that's all I can say...
 
Well, 10 years on, no CO alarm activation, I am still alive, having just swept the flue for another warm winter.

Time to replace the wood burner. Latest quotes (giving HETAS the benefit of the doubt again) all well over 1300 for half a days work, with all parts supplied. The install would involve changing 2 6" flue fittings, and cutting the straight run we already have back a bit with an angle grinder.


Utter jokers, again pricing themselves out of the market.

"you need a new flue liner". No, I don't, I really really don't - inspected internally within the past 3 months and with a 20 year warranty.
 
mbga9pgf said:
Well, 10 years on, no CO alarm activation, I am still alive, having just swept the flue for another warm winter.

Time to replace the wood burner. Latest quotes (giving HETAS the benefit of the doubt again) all well over 1300 for half a days work, with all parts supplied. The install would involve changing 2 6" flue fittings, and cutting the straight run we already have back a bit with an angle grinder.


Utter jokers, again pricing themselves out of the market.

"you need a new flue liner". No, I don't, I really really don't - inspected internally within the past 3 months and with a 20 year warranty.
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The difference is that professional installers need to do things to the letter of the regulations in order to ensure their insurance is valid. They also have insurance and other business running costs to pay, which are taken account of in their price. The Building Regulations say that the flue liner should be replaced whenever the appliance is replaced, so they aren't being "utter jokers", they're proposing to do the job properly
 
muggles said:
The difference is that professional installers need to do things to the letter of the regulations in order to ensure their insurance is valid. They also have insurance and other business running costs to pay, which are taken account of in their price. The Building Regulations say that the flue liner should be replaced whenever the appliance is replaced, so they aren't being "utter jokers", they're proposing to do the job properly
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Not true.

Document J, 1.39. If a chimney has been relined in the past using a metal lining system and the appliance is being replaced, the metal liner should also be replaced, unless the metal liner can be proven to be recently installed and can be seen to be in good condition.

Recently isnt defined. LABC will NOT insist on a re-line where the flue is in good nick and can be demonstrated to be within its warranty period.
 
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