Hot water mystery - faulty boiler?
- Thread starter pulck
- Start date
Unfortunately, it's currently under 3 inches of muddy water because of the leak so I can't do the scratch test at the moment. I just tried a magnet, though, and it's not magnetic.
Ah bummer. If you've got concrete floors in the hallway/front room then yes that is a bit of an issue, though as JohnD has said, you don't have to follow the existing route (though water board don't like pipes exposed to outside so it would have to pop up inside the house. Maybe just inside the front door then up to the bathroom (first stop) then back to the kitchen?)
And yeah I did the same at my first house (put blue in while the place was a bombsite)- was a bit of a mare (100' long trench 3' deep to the back lane) but well worth the effort.
Apologies, I did it the lazy way: I turned off the main stopcock and let some of the water drain, then did the scrape test.
It's difficult to reach, so my photo isn't great, but wouldn't you say this looks like copper?
[GALLERY=media, 102513]IMG_20190201_121342 by pulck posted 1 Feb 2019 at 12:18 PM[/GALLERY]
H
Hot&Cold
how many plumbers have visited your property
That tap/mixer with hose attachment can only be considered an overhead shower spray item when it is installed as an over head shower item with some additional safety ideas but what depending on the current installation. Otherwise your unit is an assisted hair rinse item or an attachment to wash the bath out.
Why not get independent thermostatic shower mixers,reducing the risk of scalding should be an incentive
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Good call on the magnet, wise thinking. That does look rather coppery.
While the hole is sort of dry ish, have a scratch at that bulge where the pipe meets the tap, also have a look at the pipe on the other end of the tap (where it goes to the main).
It may be that your supply pipe from garden stop tap to house is copper (hurrah) but the link to the street may still be lead (would make sense if the job was done by a previous householder & they couldn't be bothered/got hassle from water company).
Under these circs, def get Thames out to replace the lead link to the street while you have a hole in the ground.
Copper, while not as strong as steel is still fairly robust- I'd definitely be having a go at carefully dismantling the stop tap if the alternative was £250.
I spoke to another plumber who will do it next week for £100. All I have to provide is the new stopcock, so I think I would be mad to try it myself.
Are all stopcocks equal? For example, will this do the job?
Thanks, I'll investigate this.
After it's all finished, I thought it might be neater/future-proofing to put a plastic chamber in instead of the old bricks, something like this. Do you just sink it in the ground? I'm assuming you can just cut it to length and make cut-outs for the pipes? Sorry for the ignorant questions!
Are all stopcocks equal? For example, will this do the job?
Thanks, I'll investigate this.
After it's all finished, I thought it might be neater/future-proofing to put a plastic chamber in instead of the old bricks, something like this. Do you just sink it in the ground? I'm assuming you can just cut it to length and make cut-outs for the pipes? Sorry for the ignorant questions!
how many plumbers have visited your property
That tap/mixer with hose attachment can only be considered an overhead shower spray item when it is installed as an over head shower item with some additional safety ideas but what depending on the current installation. Otherwise your unit is an assisted hair rinse item or an attachment to wash the bath out.
Why not get independent thermostatic shower mixers,reducing the risk of scalding should be an incentive
I have about 5 plumbers in. First one suggested new boiler and electric power shower. Second one just shrugged shoulders. Third one replaced heat exchanger (at my request) and then came back to replace diverter valve (at his suggestion). The diverter replacement **seemed** to sort the problem out until a few weeks ago. Fifth plumber suggested it could be water pressure issues. Then Thames Water engineers who suggested it was my stopcock causing the problems. Now a sixth plumber coming in to replace stopcock!
If an independent thermostatic mixer will sort the problem out, I will get one. I've followed nearly every other suggestion (other than replacing the boiler).
Yes that stopcock will do, get the basics sorted first ie. an adequate water flowrate.
I'd still be inclined to replace the headgear rather than the whole valve.
So far all the old stopcocks I've encountered have had standard valve seats and providing the brass seating hasn't failed it's a much simpler job.
I'd still be inclined to replace the headgear rather than the whole valve.
So far all the old stopcocks I've encountered have had standard valve seats and providing the brass seating hasn't failed it's a much simpler job.
Today the plumber came to put in the new stopcock. I suggested changing just the headgear but he was happy to replace the whole thing.
Once he'd finished, I watched the stopcock as he switched the water mains back on. Water came gushing from somewhere between the stopcock and the meter. Impossible to tell exactly where the leak is, but it is somewhere around my property boundary. My stopcock and the water meter in the road are only about a meter apart and my stopcock is probably 0.5m from the boundary. To find the leak will require a lot of bricks, probably with a pneumatic drill - a big job.
I immediately phoned Thames Water whose first response was that it's my responsibility. They claim anything inside my boundary is my problem. I said you can't tell exactly where the leak is right now because it's underneath a brick wall. Eventually they agreed to send someone to take a look next week.
Are they correct in saying **anything** within my boundary is my responsibility? I had believed that the pipe between the meter and my stopcock was their property?
Also, isn't a leak more likely to be where the pipe connects to the meter? I'd assume that leaks generally occur at a fitting rather than in the middle of a pipe, or is that not right?
Once he'd finished, I watched the stopcock as he switched the water mains back on. Water came gushing from somewhere between the stopcock and the meter. Impossible to tell exactly where the leak is, but it is somewhere around my property boundary. My stopcock and the water meter in the road are only about a meter apart and my stopcock is probably 0.5m from the boundary. To find the leak will require a lot of bricks, probably with a pneumatic drill - a big job.
I immediately phoned Thames Water whose first response was that it's my responsibility. They claim anything inside my boundary is my problem. I said you can't tell exactly where the leak is right now because it's underneath a brick wall. Eventually they agreed to send someone to take a look next week.
Are they correct in saying **anything** within my boundary is my responsibility? I had believed that the pipe between the meter and my stopcock was their property?
Also, isn't a leak more likely to be where the pipe connects to the meter? I'd assume that leaks generally occur at a fitting rather than in the middle of a pipe, or is that not right?
Oops.
Thames are correct- the pipe is your problem once it crosses your property boundary. If you can, I'd suggest digging towards the boundary from your stoptap to see if the leak is on your side (doubt Thames will be cheap if it is your side of the line)
The bad news- I'd expect the break to be fairly near your stoptap- in order to remove the whole tap plumber will have had to lift or wiggle the pipework & that'll almost certainly have caused the pipe to fail (if it is heavily furred-up lead then the mechanism is the lead flexes, the furring doesn't & causes the pipe to rupture instead of bending. Depends how rough he was when doing the job.......
Thames are correct- the pipe is your problem once it crosses your property boundary. If you can, I'd suggest digging towards the boundary from your stoptap to see if the leak is on your side (doubt Thames will be cheap if it is your side of the line)
The bad news- I'd expect the break to be fairly near your stoptap- in order to remove the whole tap plumber will have had to lift or wiggle the pipework & that'll almost certainly have caused the pipe to fail (if it is heavily furred-up lead then the mechanism is the lead flexes, the furring doesn't & causes the pipe to rupture instead of bending. Depends how rough he was when doing the job.......
I was there the whole time the plumber worked on the stopcock. He was extremely cautious in everything he did as he suspected this pipe was lead. He dug out as much as he could around the stopcock before trying to unscrew the old fittings and I couldn't see any lifting or wiggling as he did so.
When he turned the water back on, I could see a few inches back from the stopcock (i.e. in the direction of the mains) where the pipe is exposed and the leak was not occurring there. It was definitely somewhere further back underneath the boundary wall, but where exactly it wasn't clear.
One other thing to mention is that the chamber of the water meter has been full of water every time it's been opened up for the last few weeks, even when it has previously been pumped out. Is this significant? Doesn't that mean a leak has been there the whole time?
That's better news, if my wiggle theory was correct then water would have come straight out into your new hole
Stoptap pot full of water- if your hole hasn't filled up then its not high water table so prob been a leak there somewhere....
Stoptap pot full of water- if your hole hasn't filled up then its not high water table so prob been a leak there somewhere....