Mmmm. And how would you know? A few hours on some vocational courses would not allow you to judge one way or the other, I'm afraid. Did you try reading those links I posted about 50 miles back?
Improving on TRV
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Mmmmmmmnnnnnnn...
I do know.
Do not presume to know my past experience or education, you'd be surprised.
You are in no position to judge, I'm afraid!
I didn't TRY to read them, I READ them.
I do know.
Do not presume to know my past experience or education, you'd be surprised.
You are in no position to judge, I'm afraid!
I didn't TRY to read them, I READ them.
You can't hold decent discussions with unlike minds.
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I saw your post referring to "Spanner Monkeys" @Mikefromlondon before you edited it to the above!
Why is that? Did you realise that it is slang for a mechanic and not a plumbing/heating engineer?
http://www.spannermonkeys.co.uk/
Certain posters are famous for editing, and whining, as well as ignoring sage advice. Certainly not afraid to go crying to the mods though 
That's good and I wasn't judging you - I was judging your attitude (at least,your apparent attitude); I would not be "surprised" because I made no assumptions but reacted to what you have written. If I have read it wrongly then I apologise. You are one of several contributors to this thread and I find it a shame that there's so much apparent inverted snobbery here. The usual reason for rejecting an academic approach to Science is ignorance. Presumably you have your own reasons. If you are self taught and have got to the end of your own course of study then well done. Few people manage to do it that way successfully and a teaching establishment is very often the only way through. I guess you used a number of resources to get to that stage and they would have been produced by 'the establishment', so there is no reason to knock it.
As you have read those two articles then you will be aware that the anti brigade on this thread are unlikely to have done so because it represents something alien to them could expose their ignorance of the wider picture of control systems. If they are supplying equipment to fit in people's homes they they owe it to those customers to be well informed about the full range of what's available. There seem to be some very shaky descriptions in the thread of the way TRVs (very simple devices) actually work; that is worrying.
But I am not sure which 'side' you are actually on. If you are smart then you must surely think that people should be offered and guided through the whole gamut of heating systems for their homes.
Certain posters are famous for editing, and whining, as well as ignoring sage advice. Certainly not afraid to go crying to the mods though
Dan, Should we refer to these 'posters' as Keyboard Monkeys then?
You have made many.
Anti what?
Do explain... because you haven't a foggiest.
Like I said... you have assumed much.
hhhmmm so the OP thinks we have never heard of proportional control....
Been working with it for a lot longer than you might think my love.
Also been working with rather clever control systems than TRV's fro a number of years. Funnily enough - as you might see from another thread, I'm currently running a little experiment of my own using some rather funky technology. But you carry on with your childish assumptions.
Been working with it for a lot longer than you might think my love.
Also been working with rather clever control systems than TRV's fro a number of years. Funnily enough - as you might see from another thread, I'm currently running a little experiment of my own using some rather funky technology. But you carry on with your childish assumptions.
I get the impression that you would rather have a personal argument than get to any sensible conclusion for my original query. I am not assuming that there is a very negative attitude to anything but standard CH systems. That can be found in the majority of posts here, along with a good smattering of plain ingnorance. It may just be a few contributors who have brought the thread down to a juvenile level but, otoh, I haven't read too much from the other regulars to prevent this happening.
My only 'assumption', when starting the thread was that TRVs are not good at measuring the ambient air temperature. As soon as some evidence was presented, I accepted it. (But with reservations, because of where there are placed, physically). I made no other unfounded technical assumptions; my views reflect the standard knowledge of control systems - backed up by two credible references. I have not seen any to support a counter argument.
I have better than "the foggiest" now, since I read more and took on board some better informed posts here. There are several contributors who still don't seem to understand and who don't want to learn.
People here seem to jealously guard what they think is the only knowledge worth having and do not seem to want to engage with any different opinions - even ones that are backed up with evidence. It strikes me that, rather than trying to help the uninformed, many of you guys just want an ego trip by 'telling people' your opinions and expecting people to accept them without question. You can only get away with that when you've got some serious letters after your name and when your Professional Institution recognises that you are probably right, and even then, not always.
The reason for our position has already been explained. If you wanted scientific opinion, why ask on a DIY forum, where prfessional opinion (gained from years of training as well as experience) will be offered foremost.
You were given answers befitting your inital arrogance; followedby a bit of diection.
You were given answers befitting your inital arrogance; followedby a bit of diection.
hhhmmm so the OP thinks we have never heard of proportional control....
View attachment 95431
Been working with it for a lot longer than you might think my love.
Also been working with rather clever control systems than TRV's fro a number of years. Funnily enough - as you might see from another thread, I'm currently running a little experiment of my own using some rather funky technology. But you carry on with your childish assumptions.
There is a very similar diagram in the second of my two references, which deals with the temporal response of a number of different systems. Your picture could have been posted a hundred posts earlier and then I wouldn't have 'assumed' anything about your knowledge. If you meter out the information that you have, as slowly as that then there's no wonder that the thread gets nowhere and that people get the wrong end of the stick. You forget that a newcomer to a thread can only respond to what's written there. The only childishness on the thread has been from some members (who seem to have withdrawn pro tem). Why should I think that you have used proportional control if you don't make it clear? Remember that most of the posts earlier on, were about on/off control and they rejected my introduction of the word "proportional". I am not psychic, you know, so calm down and stop taking offence. Why did you not disagree with those earlier, poorly informed posts from 'regulars'?
"your childish assumptions" is quite uncalled for. Why so sensitive when we could be having a useful exchange of technical views?
An attitude of "we know something that you don't know" is totally pointless on a forum of any kind and that has been the message throughout from almost everyone.
Would that be P I D control ?.
P = Proportional
I = Integral
D = Derivative
which, by combining all three functions, provides control with virtually no overshoot or droop from the set point.
Add in what used to be called "fuzzy logic" and control to within 0.1% of the set point can be achieved. Of course this is far too acurate ( and expensive ) for domestic room heating.
More twaddle from the resident Google misinterpreter.
I would love to be able to charge and earn a consultancy fee to each and every one of my clients.
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