Improving on TRV
- Thread starter sophiecentaur
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'Trust you' is the last thing I would do, in the light of the limited knowledge you are showing.
I know that when you lads have yet another failed piece of gear, you all agree it's total rubbish and the designer should be shot. But do you think you could do better at the price they build stuff for?
Inside the (very few) boilers I have been involved with, I have seen lunatic bits of design but they do actually turn on, light themselves and keep the right temperature 24/7 - in every house down the street. That doesn't happen without some reasonable competence and I suggest that, if you could do it, you might prefer to be designing, rather than some of the tough jobs you have to tackle every week.
I just don't understand why some people on this forum have to be aggressive and unpleasant when there's a simple disagreement and lack of actual knowledge.
I know that when you lads have yet another failed piece of gear, you all agree it's total rubbish and the designer should be shot. But do you think you could do better at the price they build stuff for?
Inside the (very few) boilers I have been involved with, I have seen lunatic bits of design but they do actually turn on, light themselves and keep the right temperature 24/7 - in every house down the street. That doesn't happen without some reasonable competence and I suggest that, if you could do it, you might prefer to be designing, rather than some of the tough jobs you have to tackle every week.
I just don't understand why some people on this forum have to be aggressive and unpleasant when there's a simple disagreement and lack of actual knowledge.
Yes. I should be much more deferential to our new keyboard warrior. It course it has psychic powers that tells of the experience and knowledge of the professionals here, and what products they have been working on with manufacturers.
And of course I think knows what we might be involved with in terms of Adapting already clever controls to a work in environments the manufacturer might be trying to steer some of out of.
#damnthatcorporatemarketstreaming
Possibly another teaboy from side engineering firm that thinks it runs the business. We haven't had one on here since John Harrison.
And of course I think knows what we might be involved with in terms of Adapting already clever controls to a work in environments the manufacturer might be trying to steer some of out of.
#damnthatcorporatemarketstreaming
Possibly another teaboy from side engineering firm that thinks it runs the business. We haven't had one on here since John Harrison.
You guys seem to be confusing the word 'expert' with 'well informed'. Of course I am not an expert in plumbing. I don't need to be. The fact that you mostly seem to think the TRVs are the only way to go, shows that you are stuck in your ways. Not many years ago, TRVs were an innovation and I'm sure you guys were saying, at the time, that manual valves were quite adequate for radiator control. Are you are trying to tell me that no one with TRVs will ever need to get up and change the setting under different conditions? What happens when the room is flooded with kWs of Sun? Does a TRV know what it's like on the other side of the room?
Did you ever instal a 'room thermostat'? Why did you do that and how did you choose where to put it? What's the difference between that and a room thermostat in every room? Someone earlier said that my radiator may be behind a sofa or under a curtain. If it happened to be, then a room thermostat would take care of that - assuming the rad is big enough.
Are you really claiming the this post is rubbish? Wake up and learn some new technology. You use new technology everywhere else in your lives.
Do make an effort and reply without abuse.
Did you ever instal a 'room thermostat'? Why did you do that and how did you choose where to put it? What's the difference between that and a room thermostat in every room? Someone earlier said that my radiator may be behind a sofa or under a curtain. If it happened to be, then a room thermostat would take care of that - assuming the rad is big enough.
Are you really claiming the this post is rubbish? Wake up and learn some new technology. You use new technology everywhere else in your lives.
Do make an effort and reply without abuse.
TRV - doesn't measure entire room temperature.
Room stat - doesn't measure entire room temperature.
Time to active on TRV - will smooth the heat curve.
Room thermostats - also have a delay to smooth the heat curve.
Sunlight - is radiant heat and should not be allowed to interfere with any temperature measuring devices.
Room stat - doesn't measure entire room temperature.
Time to active on TRV - will smooth the heat curve.
Room thermostats - also have a delay to smooth the heat curve.
Sunlight - is radiant heat and should not be allowed to interfere with any temperature measuring devices.
op , you need to get out more
I totally agree with the OP, his questions are of real concern to him, for most people they haven't got a flippin clue that TRVs are a very crude form of temperature control and are almost as good as not having them, for one thing they do not have a calibrated scale to set the room temperature, secondly for most people using them they have to set it by trial and error method, but on some days when it is real cold outside, most people end up turning them to Max, and when it gets warm outside, they have to turn it back to their normal setting they found through trial and error, a crude form of control with a 20 minute response time is too long, hence why OP wants something more elaborate and and taking the guess work out of setting an appropriate room temperature.
A sensor that takes care of all variables such as sun shining through a large window, ambient temperature outside, and so on is needed. for average householder they will settle for this crude form of control that is pretty useless of course and in this day and age of keeping a tab on higher fuel costs it only makes more sense to come up with something more intelligent than a crude wax controlled device that has 20 minute response time but without opting for more expensive zonal heating systems.
A TRV is a more of preventing a room from overheating than a room temperature control device. End of the day an overheated room costs far more money in fuel bills hence why it became necessary to install these in every installation.
Technical specifications and figures on a crude device are meaningless since its function depends on many other factors, heat radiated from rads, flow temperature, heat loss, drafts in the room, etc. etc. hence they are not quoted and temperature scale is therefore not appropriate, hence why each device fitted to a room has to be set to a mark that the householder feels is right for that particular room through trial & error method.
Instead of spending a huge amount on a zonal system, one could (with knowledge) build his own system using electrically controlled valves and a room stat that may reduce response time and maintain a more steadier temperature, again picking a room stat and its position is important as it should have minimum hysteresis in switching when the room cools or heats by about a degree variation within about 2 to 5 minutes.
Installing a ROOM temperature sensor in one part of the room does not cater for temperature variations in other parts of the room, one can only cater for so much, a trade off has to be made, so choosing a best position for a room sensor depends on where drafts occur that can set off the sensor far too soon, you don't really want heating coming on too soon due to someone just entering a room, so having a very sensitive stat is counter productive to saving energy bills.
A sensor that takes care of all variables such as sun shining through a large window, ambient temperature outside, and so on is needed. for average householder they will settle for this crude form of control that is pretty useless of course and in this day and age of keeping a tab on higher fuel costs it only makes more sense to come up with something more intelligent than a crude wax controlled device that has 20 minute response time but without opting for more expensive zonal heating systems.
A TRV is a more of preventing a room from overheating than a room temperature control device. End of the day an overheated room costs far more money in fuel bills hence why it became necessary to install these in every installation.
Technical specifications and figures on a crude device are meaningless since its function depends on many other factors, heat radiated from rads, flow temperature, heat loss, drafts in the room, etc. etc. hence they are not quoted and temperature scale is therefore not appropriate, hence why each device fitted to a room has to be set to a mark that the householder feels is right for that particular room through trial & error method.
Instead of spending a huge amount on a zonal system, one could (with knowledge) build his own system using electrically controlled valves and a room stat that may reduce response time and maintain a more steadier temperature, again picking a room stat and its position is important as it should have minimum hysteresis in switching when the room cools or heats by about a degree variation within about 2 to 5 minutes.
Installing a ROOM temperature sensor in one part of the room does not cater for temperature variations in other parts of the room, one can only cater for so much, a trade off has to be made, so choosing a best position for a room sensor depends on where drafts occur that can set off the sensor far too soon, you don't really want heating coming on too soon due to someone just entering a room, so having a very sensitive stat is counter productive to saving energy bills.
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all of your post is waffle mike.
I agree. Most people take the advice from the "professional" experts as gospel and believe there is no alternative. There are alternatives but they cost more, take longer to install and maybe the installer cannot make as much profit if they have to install an alternative to TRVs hence the average installer is un-likely to mention the alternatives.
TRVs are a retro fit that is said to reduce heating bills and it probabaly does reduce bills. But at what cost. Boilers running, maybe cycling, with pump pumping water through the by pass because all TRVs have closed down and the only rad without a TRV cannot dissapate the minimum heat output from the boiler.
Do you mean, in a house with no room stat? Why would anyone do that?
Jesus, they're all coming out of the woodwork.
Where's 90?
Where's 90?
A house where the "room" stat ( which might in the hall ) is not satisfied ( heat wise ) due to undersized rad and /or open windows of doors so keeps demanding heat.
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