Justified?

[Deleted member 294929]

But does it justify wiping out entire families in Gaza ?

No it doesn't. I'm feeling more uncomfortable with how Israel are dealing with this.

But I read once that the RAF did more damage in one night to a German city (I think Dresden) than the Germans did during the Battle of Britain.

We killed more Germans than Germans killed British. It was a war ... not a an eye for an eye counting game.

 

[Odds]

More and more people are uncomfortable with Israel's response to the Hamas attack and asking questions about the justification for continuing the assault on Gaza: a four day pause in the fighting will allow more aid to arrive, while troops regroup, reload and go again from Tuesday when the IDF say they'll begin operations in the south of the strip. How are the displaced people from the north supposed to find shelter? Are Israeli forces going to evict them altogether as they seek and destroy Hamas units, reducing the whole area to rubble then telling them to come back and rebuild?
All it does is create more hate for the next generation to avenge the deaths and solve nothing but slake the Zionists thirst for vengeance.
It seems to me it is an 'eye for an eye counting game' - Almost 15,000 Arab, for 1,200 Jewish deaths. I'm sure a spokesman will say Israel has the right to self defence - and they do. But by the same token Palestinians have the right to self determination - which they do not have.
At the UN they have a representative of an 'observer state', and only 138 of the 193 members actually recognise their right as a nation. This must be the forum where their status is changed before negotiating talks for a two-state solution to an eternal problem that will not go away by simply bombing them into silence and complicity with their elected fate.

 

[Roy Bloom]

More and more people are uncomfortable with Israel's response to the Hamas attack and asking questions about the justification for continuing the assault on Gaza: a four day pause in the fighting will allow more aid to arrive, while troops regroup, reload and go again from Tuesday when the IDF say they'll begin operations in the south of the strip. How are the displaced people from the north supposed to find shelter? Are Israeli forces going to evict them altogether as they seek and destroy Hamas units, reducing the whole area to rubble then telling them to come back and rebuild?
All it does is create more hate for the next generation to avenge the deaths and solve nothing but slake the Zionists thirst for vengeance.
It seems to me it is an 'eye for an eye counting game' - Almost 15,000 Arab, for 1,200 Jewish deaths. I'm sure a spokesman will say Israel has the right to self defence - and they do. But by the same token Palestinians have the right to self determination - which they do not have.
At the UN they have a representative of an 'observer state', and only 138 of the 193 members actually recognise their right as a nation. This must be the forum where their status is changed before negotiating talks for a two-state solution to an eternal problem that will not go away by simply bombing them into silence and complicity with their elected fate.

The Palestinians need a collective voice, and the current PLA do not represent all Palestinians.
When there is an elected party representing all Palestinians, the Israelis plot to undermine them, leading to a fractured Palestinian colective voice.
When there is a collective voice, aka an elected goverment, the first duty of a government is to the protection of its citizens. Then they're labeled as terrorists.
So the only allowable collective voice for Palestinians would be that which the Israelis allow, i.e a Palestinian 'government' that concedes the right of Israel to operate an Apartheid regime.

 

[fillyboy]

The Palestinians need a collective voice, and the current PLA do not represent all Palestinians.
When there is an elected party representing all Palestinians, the Israelis plot to undermine them, leading to a fractured Palestinian colective voice.
When there is a collective voice, aka an elected goverment, the first duty of a government is to the protection of its citizens. Then they're labeled as terrorists.
So the only allowable collective voice for Palestinians would be that which the Israelis allow, i.e a Palestinian 'government' that concedes the right of Israel to operate an Apartheid regime.

Usual bollix from you. They had a unity Govt, Hamas decided they wanted to do things differently.

Hamas government in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Deleted member 294929]

Usual bollix from you. They had a unity Govt, Hamas decided they wanted to do things differently.

Hamas government in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

That was a confusing read and a mess by the the read of things.

 

[Odds]

The Palestinians need a collective voice, and the current PLA do not represent all Palestinians.
When there is an elected party representing all Palestinians, the Israelis plot to undermine them, leading to a fractured Palestinian colective voice.
When there is a collective voice, aka an elected goverment, the first duty of a government is to the protection of its citizens. Then they're labeled as terrorists.
So the only allowable collective voice for Palestinians would be that which the Israelis allow, i.e a Palestinian 'government' that concedes the right of Israel to operate an Apartheid regime.

The drunken ravings from FillyB. apart, you're forgetting the ideology separating the two sides - Gaza takes a more radical approach to the situation there while the West Bank has a more fundamental view on working with the Israeli government in order to solve practical problems.
Neither has a way to bring the subject of Israel accepting Palestinian statehood to a negotiation. America is almost out of the equation and perhaps Qatar can be approached for future talks, as they've been instrumental in releasing hostages this weekend.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Usual bollix from you. They had a unity Govt, Hamas decided they wanted to do things differently.

Hamas government in the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The PLA were undermined by the Israelis pomoting Hamas as an alternative.
Then they declared Hamas to be terrorists, while arresting Palestinians and imprisoning them without trial, including children arrested for throwing stones, and facilitating the eviction of Palestinians from their family homes and land.

Any elected government in Palestine is undermined by the Israelis, in order to prevent the Palestinians a collective voice.

Furthemore, the Hamas attack was an inevitable response to continuing apartheid against the Palestinians.

The Hamas attack was equivalent to a stream boiler explosion when the relief value is blocked. Prior to the attack Israeli settlers expanded their campaign of unremitting violence against the Arabs in the West Bank. The Palestinians were bottled up and confined to the equivalent of jails, spread in shrinking plots of defenceless land. Israeli politicians promoted riots with acts like inviting Zionists to enter the al-Sharif/Temple Mount complex. Israel floated high with U.S. visa waiver programs and regional normalization agreements.

Why The Ceasefire In Gaza Could Lead To Lasting Peace

The cease-fire in Gaza is about two kinds of people:

barrygander.substack.com

In addition:

Hamas set itself up to provide health care and education. To end the blockade they initially tried peaceful protests like the Great March in 2018, protesting the siege-like conditions in Gaza. These escalated to armed clashes. Determined to ignore them, Israel and America set out to create bilateral partnerships with surrounding Arab states.

This was a provocation too far…Hamas could see that once the ring was closed, there would be no need to consider a ‘Palestinian’ point of view at all.

The Palestinians had a chance at decent treatment, and the area had a chance at peace, under the leadership of Israeli Prime Minister Rabin. He was opposed vehemently by Netanyahu and the right-wing Zionists, to the point where Netanyahu was calling for his death. Rabin was indeed obligingly assassinated by a right-wing Zionist.

Why The Ceasefire In Gaza Could Lead To Lasting Peace

The cease-fire in Gaza is about two kinds of people:

barrygander.substack.com

USA is now looking to restrict the 'visa waver scheme' with Israel.

U.S. warns Israel it's violating visa waiver deal with West Bank closure​

https://www.axios.com/2023/11/16/israel-visa-waiver-palestinian-americans-us-violation

 

[Roy Bloom]

... as they've been instrumental in releasing hostages this weekend.

Meanwhile Israel has continued to 'arrest' even more hostages, prisoners.
They've probably arrested more Palestinians this week than they released in the 'exchange'.

 

[Odds]

Emboldened by curfews and raids on Palestinians, illegal settlers have stepped up violence and property theft.

According to the Ministry of Health, at least 237 Palestinians have been killed and about 2,850 others injured by Israeli forces in the occupied West Bank since October 7. “There is a second war in Palestine which is happening in the occupied West Bank,” said Milhem. “It is also crucial to understand how it affects farmers in the occupied West Bank.”

According to Human Rights Watch, Israeli security forces have killed more Palestinians in the occupied West Bank between January 1 and October 6 this year than in any year since 2005, when the United Nations began recording fatalities. This has raised Palestinian fears for their safety and the safety of their families, in addition to their fears for their livelihoods.

According to the UN, poverty has increased by 20 percent and gross domestic product declined by 4.2 percent since October 7.

 

[Odds]

Welcome home...

Deir al-Balah, 25 November.

The day before the truce, Gaza authorities put the death toll at 14,532.

Justified?

 

[Roy Bloom]

Welcome home...

Deir al-Balah, 25 November.

The day before the truce, Gaza authorities put the death toll at 14,532.

Justified?

There is no truce in the West Bank, and the killing of Paslestinians continues:

Israeli forces carry out deadly raids in the West Bank amid Gaza truce​

Five Palestinians were shot dead in Jenin, while three others were killed elsewhere in the occupied West Bank on Sunday.

Israeli forces kill eight Palestinians in occupied West Bank raids

Five Palestinians were shot dead in Jenin, while three others were killed elsewhere in the occupied West Bank on Sunday.

www.aljazeera.com

And the taking of Palestinians as hostages prisoners continues in the West Bank:

60 Palestinian women still held in Israeli jails: Palestinian Prisoners Society​

Israeli authorities continue to hold 60 Palestinian women in jail, with most of them arrested after October 7, a local nongovernmental organisation says.

‘Trauma, stress, sorrow and sadness have taken root in Gaza’

UNICEF official recounts scenes witnessed after weeks of Israeli bombardment demolished major parts of Gaza.

www.aljazeera.com

The Israelis continue to initimdate and subjugate the Palestinians, as they have done for decades, to foment and prolong the conflict.

 

[Koolpc]

Hamas should stop hiding amongst the people. They are responsible for Palestinian deaths. They are cowards...

 

[IT Minion]

Where should they hide? It's not as if they've got much room to work in.

Hamas is responsible for the murder and deaths of Israelis, and some Palestinians as well as they're not exactly nice people.

Israel is responsible for every weapon they fire into Gaza. They don't get to blame Hamas for their actions. They choose how and when they respond and they seem to be choosing ethnic cleansing at first glance.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Where should they hide? It's not as if they've got much room to work in.

Hamas is responsible for the murder and deaths of Israelis, and some Palestinians as well as they're not exactly nice people.

Israel is responsible for every weapon they fire into Gaza. They don't get to blame Hamas for their actions. They choose how and when they respond and they seem to be choosing ethnic cleansing at first glance.

In addition some of the Israelis killed on 7 October were killed by friendly fire.

 

[Roy Bloom]

Hamas should stop hiding amongst the people. They are responsible for Palestinian deaths. They are cowards...

Hamas are not responsible for the decades long subjugation, torturing, killing and expulsion of Palestinians from their ancestral homes.
That is typical Israeli intimidation, and fomenting of the conflict.
Every time there's a possible permanent solution, the Israelis invariably scupper it with some instigating act, that is supported by US and UK.
While the Israeli government is dominated by Zionists, there'll be no chance of a permanent solution.
While the Israeli government is dominated by Zionists there will always be Palestinian resistance to the miltary occupation of Gaza and the West Bank.