UNjustified

[fillyboy]

For some reason the 1973 oil crisis was mention suggesting this was down to "Arab" actions due to Israel's actions, That must have related to the West Bank.

It was down to Egypt and Syria invading Israel.

1973 oil crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In October 1973, the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) announced that it was implementing a total oil embargo against the countries that had supported Israel at any point during the Fourth Arab–Israeli War, which began after Egypt and Syria launched a large-scale surprise attack in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to recover the territories that they had lost to Israel during the Third Arab–Israeli War. In an effort that was led by Faisal of Saudi Arabia,[2] the initial countries that OAPEC targeted were Canada, Japan, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the United States. This list was later expanded to include Portugal, Rhodesia, and South Africa. In March 1974, OAPEC lifted the embargo,[3] but the price of oil had risen by nearly 300%: from US$3 per barrel ($19/m3) to nearly US$12 per barrel ($75/m3) globally. Prices in the United States were significantly higher than the global average. After it was implemented, the embargo caused an oil crisis, or "shock", with many short- and long-term effects on the global economy as well as on global politics.[4] The 1973 embargo later came to be referred to as the "first oil shock" vis-à-vis the "second oil shock" that was the 1979 oil crisis, brought upon by the Iranian Revolution.

 

[JohnD]

I think filly calls that "acting in response."

Sometimes he approves of it.

 

[Roy Bloom]

It was down to Egypt and Syria invading Israel.

1973 oil crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In October 1973, the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries (OAPEC) announced that it was implementing a total oil embargo against the countries that had supported Israel at any point during the Fourth Arab–Israeli War, which began after Egypt and Syria launched a large-scale surprise attack in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to recover the territories that they had lost to Israel during the Third Arab–Israeli War. In an effort that was led by Faisal of Saudi Arabia,[2] the initial countries that OAPEC targeted were Canada, Japan, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the United States. This list was later expanded to include Portugal, Rhodesia, and South Africa. In March 1974, OAPEC lifted the embargo,[3] but the price of oil had risen by nearly 300%: from US$3 per barrel ($19/m3) to nearly US$12 per barrel ($75/m3) globally. Prices in the United States were significantly higher than the global average. After it was implemented, the embargo caused an oil crisis, or "shock", with many short- and long-term effects on the global economy as well as on global politics.[4] The 1973 embargo later came to be referred to as the "first oil shock" vis-à-vis the "second oil shock" that was the 1979 oil crisis, brought upon by the Iranian Revolution.

More fact twisting by sillyboy.
It wasn't an invasion. It was an attempt to recover land lost in a previous war.
From your link:

attempt to recover the territories that they had lost to Israel during the Third Arab–Israeli War.

And let's not forget that the Third Arab-Israeli war was started by Israel attacking Egypt, even before UN forces had left the zone.
15 UN peacekeepers were killed by the Israeli air strikes. (nothing changes ).

 

[Odds]

I fear that will get increasingly difficult. Apart from the unarmed ones carrying a white flag who were deliberately shot by Israeli soldiers, the massive bombing and shelling of Gaza has killed many thousands. If Israeli captives were in a church, school, mosque or hospital that was destroyed, their remains may by now have been crushed into the rubble by Israeli bulldozers.

Protestors in Israel are demanding a swap with Palestinian prisoners. You'd think Netanyahu would do his best to secure their release but he's determined to push ahead with the wholesale destruction of Gaza, regardless of casualties. He probably sees the hostages as 'collatoral damage'.

 

[JohnD]

Ethnic cleansing of Palestinans from Jerusalem

 

[ajohn]

It was down to Egypt and Syria invading Israel.

No. If your talking 6 day war Israel quietly prepared and then carried out a pre-emptive strike on Egypt largely wiping out it's air force. This effectively made them the most powerful military force in the entire region. Stealth. A little different to what you may read.

More recent muttering - taking over the bottom end of the Gaza Strip. Settle it maybe? Pass.

 

[Odds]

No. If your talking 6 day war Israel quietly prepared and then carried out a pre-emptive strike on Egypt largely wiping out it's air force. This effectively made them the most powerful military force in the entire region. Stealth. A little different to what you may read.

A lot of controversy and mystery surrounds the build-up to the six-day war...

On May 17, 1967, an Egyptian aircraft departed air space over the Sinai Peninsula and flew over the port of Eilat in southern Israel at an altitude of more than 59,000 feet. The jet continued toward Jordan, then turned around and made another pass over Israel — this time flying directly above the Dimona nuclear complex...The intruders were MiG-21s. And their flights were totally unauthorized.

War is Boring.com

 

[ajohn]

Believe what you will.

From your link
The pilots had witnessed dozens of Israeli reconnaissance overflights of Egypt and Egyptian air bases, nearly all of which remained entirely unchallenged as the Israeli pilots exploited gaps in Egyptian radar coverage.

Pots and kettles etc.

 

[Odds]

From your link
The pilots had witnessed dozens of Israeli reconnaissance overflights of Egypt and Egyptian air bases, nearly all of which remained entirely unchallenged as the Israeli pilots exploited gaps in Egyptian radar coverage.

Pots and kettles etc.

Foremost, what the Israelis did not know was that except for the reconnaissance mission by the Il-28Rs in September 1961, all the subsequent overflights were neither ordered nor authorized by the Egyptian high command.

"In the absence of evidence, assume your enemy is up to summat."

Lao Tzu. (probably)

 

[ajohn]

From the wiki
On 5 June 1967, as the UNEF was in the process of leaving the zone, Israel launched a series of preemptive airstrikes against Egyptian airfields and other facilities, launching its war effort.[28] Egyptian forces were caught by surprise, and nearly all of Egypt's military aerial assets were destroyed, giving Israel air supremacy. Simultaneously, the Israeli military launched a ground offensive into Egypt's Sinai Peninsula as well as the Egyptian-occupied Gaza Strip. After some initial resistance, Nasser ordered an evacuation of the Sinai Peninsula; by the sixth day of the conflict

Might add that when it hit the news I was been given a lift to work by an older person who said that Israel had learnt from the Nazi's He meant in terms of how to attack.

Palestinian collateral damage, As an Israeli military man pointed out other western powers have killed far more. He mentioned several episodes. I thought back to Iraq which he didn't mention. Enormous numbers. Difference with this one is that despite attempt to stop video etc coming out we are seeing and hearing a lot about the results. Collateral aspects in real terms are a military decision which in real terms mean international rules or what ever you choose to call them do not really apply.

 

[Roy Bloom]

A lot of controversy and mystery surrounds the build-up to the six-day war...

On May 17, 1967, an Egyptian aircraft departed air space over the Sinai Peninsula and flew over the port of Eilat in southern Israel at an altitude of more than 59,000 feet. The jet continued toward Jordan, then turned around and made another pass over Israel — this time flying directly above the Dimona nuclear complex...The intruders were MiG-21s. And their flights were totally unauthorized.

War is Boring.com

A good movie, The Angel, gives another version of events. Believe what you will.

There was an overflight of Russia by USA but it didn't motivate Russia to to start a war with USA.
I suspect there's been many overflights of countries, but they didn't start a war.

Some of the information in that article doesn't add up. According to Israel, there were some overflights of Israel's nuclear site at Dimona, but they would have been serious reconnaissance flights, not joy-riding Egyptian pilots. According to Israel, they were detected too late to be intercepted, but were chased into the Sinai. Given the highly sensitive nature of Dimona, Israel's concern about it and any attack, and the advanced stages of the development of a nuclear bomb, it would have been defended to the nth degree. Enemy planes wouldn't have been allowed to get anywhere near it.
According to Israel there were some overfilghts, even some low-level overflights.
The high level flights were shot at, even chased by Isarel's fighters into the Sinai, but it's claimed, by the Eyptian pilots, that the low-level flights were undetected.
It's obvious that if high-level flights would be detected, low-level flights even more so, and according to Israel, they were.
We only have Israel's report of these flights.

In addition, the pilots must have been totally reckless. It's claimed they were exploring the ceiling limits, beyond their design capabilities. No-one in their right mind would risk a modern, newly-purchased fighter falling into enemy's hands with such risky reckless flights over enemy territory.
Not to mention the risk of initialising a war, on the basis of repeated over-flights, which the Egyptian pilots knew had been detected.
The nuclear site was a site of great concern and would hve been well protected from low-level and high-level reconnaissance.
The Israelis were well aware of their neighbour's interest and concern about the site, so a) it would not only be well defended, b) the Egyptian pilots would not want to warn the Israelis of any potential attack on the site, with reckless over-flights.
The Nuclear site at Dimona may even have been a motivation for the Arabs starting a war, which Israel was well aware of.

serious concerns that the Dimona nuclear site might be a target for Egyptian attack.

The 1967 Six-Day War

www.wilsoncenter.org

Moreover, the six day war is steeped in secrecy and disinformation:

The 1967 Six-Day War is probably the most important and most researched event in the Middle East since the creation of the State of Israel in 1948. Volumes of studies have been produced over the five decades since. Yet, one important aspect remains obscure and untold: the crisis’ nuclear dimension. On this issue, both sides remain bonded together by layers of taboo, silence, and secrecy.

The 1967 Six-Day War

www.wilsoncenter.org

Certainly the over-flights were presented to the Israeli cabinet as the reason to pre-empt an attack on Egypt.
But it was the position of bombers in the Sinai that was of real concern.

In additon the reason given for the attack at the time, was the Egyptian closure of the Suez to Israeli ships.

So certainly were the Arabs concerned about the nuclear developments at Dimona (they had just completed a construction of their early nuclear device), certainly were the Israelis concerned about the potential attack on Dimona, almost certainly were the build up of Egyptian bombers and other military in the Sinai, possibly there were over-flights of Dimoma (we only have Israel reports on that).
But joy-riding Egyptian pilots? Naaah, I don't buy it.

 

[Odds]

There was an overflight of Russia by USA but it didn't motivate Russia to to start a war with USA.
I suspect there's been many overflights of countries, but they didn't start a war.

Some of the information in that article doesn't add up. According to Israel, there were some overflights of Israel's nuclear site at Dimona, but they would have been serious reconnaissance flights, not joy-riding Egyptian pilots. According to Israel, they were detected too late to be intercepted, but were chased into the Sinai. Given the highly sensitive nature of Dimona, Israel's concern about it and any attack, and the advanced stages of the development of a nuclear bomb, it would have been defended to the nth degree. Enemy planes wouldn't have been allowed to get anywhere near it.
According to Israel there were some overfilghts, even some low-level overflights.
The high level flights were shot at, even chased by Isarel's fighters into the Sinai, but it's claimed, by the Eyptian pilots, that the low-level flights were undetected.
It's obvious that if high-level flights would be detected, low-level flights even more so, and according to Israel, they were.
We only have Israel's report of these flights.

In addition, the pilots must have been totally reckless. It's claimed they were exploring the ceiling limits, beyond their design capabilities. No-one in their right mind would risk a modern, newly-purchased fighter falling into enemy's hands with such risky reckless flights over enemy territory.
Not to mention the risk of initialising a war, on the basis of repeated over-flights, which the Egyptian pilots knew had been detected.
The nuclear site was a site of great concern and would hve been well protected from low-level and high-level reconnaissance.
The Israelis were well aware of their neighbour's interest and concern about the site, so a) it would not only be well defended, b) the Egyptian pilots would not want to warn the Israelis of any potential attack on the site, with reckless over-flights.
The Nuclear site at Dimona may even have been a motivation for the Arabs starting a war, which Israel was well aware of.

The 1967 Six-Day War

www.wilsoncenter.org

Moreover, the six day war is steeped in secrecy and disinformation:

The 1967 Six-Day War

www.wilsoncenter.org

Certainly the over-flights were presented to the Israeli cabinet as the reason to pre-empt an attack on Egypt.
But it was the position of bombers in the Sinai that was of real concern.

In additon the reason given for the attack at the time, was the Egyptian closure of the Suez to Israeli ships.

So certainly were the Arabs concerned about the nuclear developments at Dimona (they had just completed a construction of their early nuclear device), certainly were the Israelis concerned about the potential attack on Dimona, almost certainly were the build up of Egyptian bombers and other military in the Sinai, possibly there were over-flights of Dimoma (we only have Israel reports on that).
But joy-riding Egyptian pilots? Naaah, I don't buy it.

I think the term 'joy riding' is too flippant and the article is a mess of opinion and factoids but tensions were heightened by pilots maintaining dominance over the contested air space of the Sinai. A war would've occured at some point, no doubt. All they needed was an excuse.

 

[fillyboy]

I think the term 'joy riding' is too flippant and the article is a mess of opinion and factoids but tensions were heightened by pilots maintaining dominance over the contested air space of the Sinai. A war would've occured at some point, no doubt. All they needed was an excuse.

Nasser was ramping up the rhetoric and mobilizing troops but technically, yes, it was one of the few wars actually started by Israel.

 

[Odds]

Damage caused by shrapnel from a regime forces shell on a wall bearing the phrase ‘If you cannot speak the truth do not applaud falsehood’
in Darat Izza in the western countryside of Aleppo.
[Ali Haj Suleiman/Al Jazeera]

Breakfast in the ruins.

 

[Odds]

Thought about another thread on the continuing campaign by Syrian forces to regain control of the country but considered the conflict was in context with the Israeli war in Gaza and the West Bank...

Syria.liveuamap.com

The northwestern region of Syria has been subject to a ceasefire agreement brokered in 2020 with the assistance of Russia and Turkey. Still, the regime and its allied forces have repeatedly violated this agreement – on at least 1,200 occasions over the past year alone, according to the White Helmets. The regime aims to destabilise the population by taking out civilian infrastructure, al-Rashed said. “The absence of accountability and the impunity for the crimes committed by the Syrian regime is what gave it the green light to continue its attacks without deterrence.”

By staging these attacks, the Syrian regime is hoping to drive a wedge between the northern Aleppo countryside – controlled by Turkey – and Idlib and the western countryside of Aleppo – under Hayat Tahrir al-Sham, allied to the Syrian opposition government and classified as “terrorist” by the regime – Mustafa al-Naimi, a journalist based in Turkey, told Al Jazeera.

More than 90 percent of people in [Idlib] live in poverty and are reliant on international aid. However, the arrival of aid was severely restricted last July by Russia vetoing a UN Security Council vote on renewing a cross-border aid mechanism through the Bab al-Hawa border crossing with Turkey. Al-Naimi said opposition factions controlling the northwest may not have the military capacity to mount a strong enough defence against the bombings. Opposition leaders remain defiant, however.

He disagreed that the Syrian regime’s bombing was aimed at separating northwestern Syria, pointing out that the bombing had targeted areas under Turkish control, including Afrin in the countryside around Aleppo. He feels that the regime’s escalation over the past four months has been “an attempt to restore stolen sovereignty” after being bombed several times by Israel.

Al Jazeera.com