Worcester + Wave = constantly running pump ??

[fixitflav]

Did some investigating tonight. Temperature on the wave set to 19 degrees.

The Wave turned the boiler flame out at 18.2 degrees (set temp 19) and according to Worchester Bosch will then continue to run the pump using the boilers latent heat to continue warming the room up untill the set temp is reached. Only problem with this idea is that as it is still 0.9 degree short of the set temp and the set temp is never reached so the pump continually runs untill the actual temp drops low enough for the boiler to re fire. This then repeats all day unless by some miracle the set temp is reached, maybe as the day warms up.

Also just notice that despite the wave reading 18.9 degrees (0.1 degree below set temp) the pump has just restarted but the bolier hasn't lit, so now we have a running pump pumping cold water round the system.

I think the complaint that the pump runs all the the time is not exactly true and it is the above scenario that is happening.

In my view this has made what was a pretty good product absolutely useless as my set temp is never reached.

As it is coming into summer it is not such a big deal at the moment but if the next software update does not fix this silly idea of using latenet heat and continually running the pump I will be demanding a replacement from Worcester Bosch.

It's a bit disconcerting that a firm like Worcester Bosch doesn't understand the concept of latent heat. It's not latent heat, residual heat would be a better way to describe it.
But if you've found that residual heat raises the room temp by an additional 0.7degC, you might try altering the 18.2 to 18.3 or somewhat higher to make sure. At least as a stopgap while you try to get some sense out of WB.

 

[fixitflav]

The Wave is unique because it can directly control the boiler modulation, no third party non-EMS bus controls can do this.

So a Hive (and these have not turned out to be a paragon of reliability) or Nest etc etc cannot possibly achieve the same energy savings.

Opentherm was designed many years ago to allow third party controls to intelligently drive other modulating boilers, but the reality is that only the boiler manufacturers lacking the r&d budgets to afford their own bespoke controls embraced it.

Wave is a UK centric device and unlike most other WC controls is simple to use and extremely well supported by the manufacturer. They are open till 8pm most days and answer the phone almost immediately.

Not much not to like, really.

If you have the budget, EVOHOME is the pinnacle but that is a zoning product.

No doubt modulating boiler flow temp to exactly the point to maintain room temp gives best efficiency, but there must ba point at which pump costs, running ang replacement, exceed the savings. Though we mustn't forget all the electrical power into the pump goes into the house as heat, some into the water. Then again, electric heats costs about 4x gas heat.
I think the software is incomplete, there should be a minimum flow temp set. Then on falling heat demand the flow temp is held at that point and the room temp rises until the roomstat opens, stopping the complete system (as I said in #56).

 

[Paul Ryan]

It's a bit disconcerting that a firm like Worcester Bosch doesn't understand the concept of latent heat. It's not latent heat, residual heat would be a better way to describe it.
But if you've found that residual heat raises the room temp by an additional 0.7degC, you might try altering the 18.2 to 18.3 or somewhat higher to make sure. At least as a stopgap while you try to get some sense out of WB.

Hi
Thats the problem the latent heat hardly raises the temperature so the thermostat is never satisfied thus the pump keeps running. It didn't do this before it's only since the latest software update. By the way ours is a system boiler not a combi, I.E we still have a hot water cylinder

 

[MrAbattoir]

Hi
Thats the problem the latent heat hardly raises the temperature so the thermostat is never satisfied thus the pump keeps running. It didn't do this before it's only since the latest software update.

I also get an issue where the DHW preheat doesn’t work while the pump is doing it’s running on business.
This also wasn’t an issue on the old firmware.

 

[Jreb]

Ok, two days after we were given the EasyComfort as a replacement for the Wave.

Same problem... or a version of it.

Essentially it gets to temperature, then over temperature and the pump/fan (not sure which) just keeps on running! Putting the target temperature down fixes it, as does popping the EC off the wall and back on again (then waiting a minute).

Obviously complained and heard back that they are now looking into an issue where with the board on the boiler combined with the Wave/EC.

Really pretty fed up that the shiny new system can have such a glaring error.

If the wave gets a fix I’ll be going back to that, but before long I’ll be getting a full refund for the initial cost of the Wave and getting a simple non-smart thermo where I set times and temps and it does the rest.

 

[Paul Ryan]

Ok, two days after we were given the EasyComfort as a replacement for the Wave.

Same problem... or a version of it.

Essentially it gets to temperature, then over temperature and the pump/fan (not sure which) just keeps on running! Putting the target temperature down fixes it, as does popping the EC off the wall and back on again (then waiting a minute).

Obviously complained and heard back that they are now looking into an issue where with the board on the boiler combined with the Wave/EC.

Really pretty fed up that the shiny new system can have such a glaring error.

If the wave gets a fix I’ll be going back to that, but before long I’ll be getting a full refund for the initial cost of the Wave and getting a simple non-smart thermo where I set times and temps and it does the rest.

If you wouldn't mind when you contact them point them to this post as they just seem to be fobbing most of us off saying they are looking into the issue. There would be no issue if they simply reverted the software back to the version that did work simple really

 

[Jreb]

If you wouldn't mind when you contact them point them to this post as they just seem to be fobbing most of us off saying they are looking into the issue. There would be no issue if they simply reverted the software back to the version that did work simple really

Hey Paul, I have done! They admit there is a problem to me at least with the wave.

They now also admit there is a problem with the EasyControl.... just need to keep waiting I guess.

 

[fixitflav]

Hey Paul, I have done! They admit there is a problem to me at least with the wave.

They now also admit there is a problem with the EasyControl.... just need to keep waiting I guess.

I’m no doubt something of a Luddite, but this thread has made me even more wary of over-complicated controls. Automatic updates, which you have no control over, via the internet!!! How ridiculous is that? The software is simple enough, and if they can’t get it right first time, I’d question their competence, specially after reading these horror stories, where the update has more problems than the original.

There has been stand-alone weather compensation kit available for 30-odd years. I’ve never had one, but I assume it can be set up to suit a specific installation. After that, why would the software need updating?

Because of inappropriate German design (ie. running the pumps 24/7) the energy savings from eco pumps looked to be considerable. However, in the UK we don't generally use weather comp type systems....so there is virtually no benefit in having eco pumps. You'll be lucky to save a fiver a year on the electric bill, and given the lower reliability will probably make a loss long term.

In any case, with a sensibly-designed weather comp system, the pump wouldn't need to run constantly.

 

[Paul Ryan]

Still no fix from Wrocester Bosch how long does it take to revert back to software that worked. Sick of listening to a running pump pumping cold water around my house

 

[Jreb]

Still no fix from Wrocester Bosch how long does it take to revert back to software that worked. Sick of listening to a running pump pumping cold water around my house

Been 6-7 weeks now for me. Gave me a new Wave and fixed it 100%, until that new Wave did an auto update and it ****ed again.

Then I got given an EasyControl, which has much the same problem... apart from it also fire up the boiler when past the requested heat, so not just a pump noise, but also costing money.

My guess is they will fix the EC but the wave is now out of date and I bet they are in no rush to spend time on that.

Sigh.

 

[D_Hailsham]

But if you've found that residual heat raises the room temp by an additional 0.7degC, you might try altering the 18.2 to 18.3 or somewhat higher to make sure.

It sounds as if the heating curve is not set correctly. The parameters need fine tuning.

 

[Paul Ryan]

It sounds as if the heating curve is not set correctly. The parameters need fine tuning.

Not sure what they have screwed up as everything worked perfect untill the latest software update, that is what is so annoying all they have do is revert back to the earlier software version and it would be fixed, rather pathetic really for such a large company.

 

[Paul Ryan]

So any advice on options to replace the wave? we have a Greenstar 30 CDi System boiler so need a programmable themostat that will also have a programmable timed hot water function as we still have a hot water cylinder. Not too bothered about the themostat being internet connected.

 

[Paul Ryan]

My wave software has reverted back to 2.18.2 but it still turns the boiller flame off .4 of a degree before the set temp (I can live with that) at least now the pump stops running a couple of minutes after the bolier flame turns off. At least they have listened and rolled the software back to the earlier version.

 

[Jreb]

My wave software has reverted back to 2.18.2 but it still turns the boiller flame off .4 of a degree before the set temp (I can live with that) at least now the pump stops running a couple of minutes after the bolier flame turns off. At least they have listened and rolled the software back to the earlier version.

Awesome! So is that is rolled back for all and working as is should?

Thanks