Climate: The Movie

[Brigadier]

You say

please respond to what I said, not what you think you heard

Then do exactly what you accuse me of:

Filly and you are therefore using this argument: "No industry can ever lower production levels because it makes them unable to continue"

I didn't post about every industry; just about the petro industry.

Neither I nor Filly posted about lowering production levels; we posted about stopping an entire production stream. Dead.

Currently, around half to three-quarters of extracted oil goes to fuel.
A bit is flared off, and the rest goes to chemicals.

Filly implied that, if fuel production was no longer a thing, the entire industry would become unviable.
I tend to agree with Filly's position.

 

[berty3000]

Definitely not settled.

Much cooler now than it has been in the past without human society. Much warmer when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and at other points, then much colder in ongoing cycles. It's a shame people don't study geology or the history of the earth.

Warmer periods correspond with outbursts of life and colder periods with mass extinctions. All happened before, over and over. We will be wiped out by a massive meteorite or multiple volcanic eruptions long before we are harmed by the effects of warming (if we ever are significantly harmed by that).

And the bed wetters will be none the wiser as they will have been long dead and forgotten. Get on with life guys. Enjoy your cars and other fun things and be grateful you were given the gift that is life at a time in history when it has scarcely been easier. Rather than moping about fretting about temperatures and what is causing their endless change. Not that any of you plan to change your habits of course

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

And the bed wetters will be none the wiser as they will have been long dead and forgotten. Get on with life guys. Enjoy your cars and other fun things and be grateful you were given the gift that is life at a time in history when it has scarcely been easier. Rather than moping about fretting about temperatures and what is causing their endless change. Not that any of you plan to change your habits of course

There has never been a period, with less to be worried about, so they go out of their way to invent something to be worried about..

The link between CO2 and global warming is unproven, just a theory, nothing more. CO2 has been much higher, and it has been a little lower too.

I am a firm believer in living a reasonably green life, and I dare say my life has been much greener than many who are here panicking in this thread, but I do have my limits.

 

[berty3000]

Same here, Harry. I live a lot more frugally and "greener" than my neighbours and colleagues, and certainly more than the average so called environmentalist. I walk or cycle, even when the destination is miles away, use a motorbike for longer distances, refain from buying crap all the time, reuse things, make things last, hang washing out to dry, all sorts.

I have a small carbon footprint by the standards of most, but I'm not actually afraid of any environmental catastrophe. I also don't have any problem with others choosing to have cars and luxuries that I shun. In fact, I am happy for them, providing they've used their own money and they aren't lecturing others about their fake environmental virtues.

I'm grateful to be alive in this time and that it isn't colder!

 

[Notch7]

Then do exactly what you accuse me of:

when Filly claimed the oil industry could not be scaled back I said:

"that doesnt make sense"

you then stated it did make sense

therefore you are absolutely saying:

"No industry can ever lower production levels because it makes them unable to continue"

I didn't post about every industry; just about the petro industry

So was I

Neither I nor Filly posted about lowering production levels; we posted about stopping an entire production stream. Dead

thats complete bolox

Filly literally said: "lets 'just stop oil by 80%'. Not sure how that would work out for oil companies, doesn't sound particularly commercially viable."

is that, or is that not "lowering production levels"??




hence my point:
therefore you are absolutely saying:

"No industry can ever lower production levels because it makes them unable to continue"

you said "Why bother going to the trouble and cost of extraction if much of your market - ICE - no longer exists?"

that is not "stopping an entire production stream dead"



there are 1500 major oil fields in the world, 65,000 oil fields in total -all with own extraction infrastructure, they could easily independently close and still have oil,fields operating at normal operating capacity

I’m sorry but the idea that oil production can’t be scaled down is complete bolox

 

[Notch7]

The link between CO2 and global warming is unproven, just a theory, nothing more

This actually does boil my pizz

Harry thinks it’s acceptable to be allowed to post his beliefs (which are wrong)

But Harry thinks it is unacceptable for anybody to challenge him on it.

He says his mind is made and it’s pointless discussing it, well don’t f*****g post about it then.

I don’t care if ignorant people which to remain ignorant….just don’t bother sharing it with anybody else, if you can’t handle people responding.

 

[Brigadier]

Stop ranting.
Stop throwing up strawmen.


100 barrels of oil.
50-75 currently go to fuel.
The rest, chemicals.

Myself and Filly said that, if you stopped the fuel, the other 25-50 barrels would become untenable.

That's not "lowering production"; that's killing an entire aspect of it.

 

[IT Minion]

There has never been a period, with less to be worried about, so they go out of their way to invent something to be worried about..

The link between CO2 and global warming is unproven, just a theory, nothing more. CO2 has been much higher, and it has been a little lower too.

I am a firm believer in living a reasonably green life, and I dare say my life has been much greener than many who are here panicking in this thread, but I do have my limits.

Has it ever been higher whilst the human species has existed? Spoiler, no. Never above 300ppm since we got here until the industrial revolution kicked in.

Will the planet still be habitable by humans with 2 or more degrees of warming? Yes, will it be a massive disruption, also yes.

 

[wobs]

Same here, Harry. I live a lot more frugally and "greener" than my neighbours and colleagues, and certainly more than the average so called environmentalist. I walk or cycle, even when the destination is miles away, use a motorbike for longer distances, refain from buying crap all the time, reuse things, make things last, hang washing out to dry, all sorts.

I have a small carbon footprint by the standards of most, but I'm not actually afraid of any environmental catastrophe. I also don't have any problem with others choosing to have cars and luxuries that I shun. In fact, I am happy for them, providing they've used their own money and they aren't lecturing others about their fake environmental virtues.

I'm grateful to be alive in this time and that it isn't colder!

So what you're saying is, that you don't care.

 

[berty3000]

So what you're saying is, that you don't care.

I care about as much as I do about the asteroid that will eventually collide with the earth and the massive volcanic eruptions that will occur.

Do you care? What are you doing about it?

 

[Notch7]

Stop ranting.

Ad hominem

Stop throwing up strawmen

I havent, you have.

Myself and Filly said that, if you stopped the fuel, the other 25-50 barrels would become untenable.

That's not "lowering production"; that's killing an entire aspect of it

No, that’s not what Filly or you said originally

By the way, you make the assumption refining crude oil can’t be developed to produce more petrochemical and less or no fuel oil.


“Crude oil-to-chemicals (COTC) technology allows crude oil to be converted directly into high-value chemical products instead of conventional fuels. A refinery and a petrochemical plant are merged into a single facility.
Most of the COTC plants planned or already in operation are located in China or the Middle East.”

 

[Notch7]

I care about as much as I do about the asteroid that will eventually collide with the earth and the massive volcanic eruptions that will occur.

you don’t care because you don’t understand.

 

[Brigadier]

No, that’s not what Filly or you said originally

That's exactly what I said.

By the way, you make the assumption refining crude oil can’t be developed to produce more petrochemical and less or no fuel oil.

I make no such assumption; without a market for it though, it's wasted.
And overproduction - of chemicals - decreases the price (increased price was one of the crutches you used, to bolster the otherwise-unprofitable - through no fuel revenues - petro industry).

Ad hominem

It was a statement of fact; you're ranting - and doing lots of it - lately.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I'll keep on using my car rather than use (much) less convenient public transport. People can say 'ah so you don't care about the environment' all they like. If I literally do everything by the tree-hugging book from today, how much positive impact do my changes have? Yeah yeah, if we ALL do it then the positive impact is much greater. Thing is, not everyone does and we thankfully live in a democracy where we still have a degree of choice over this stuff.

It'll all sort itself out ... and if it doesn't and the earth does collapse then correct, on that much wider point I don't really care.

 

[wobs]

I care about as much as I do about the asteroid that will eventually collide with the earth and the massive volcanic eruptions that will occur.

Do you care? What are you doing about it?

We will see millions of people relocating due to climate change, so if you enjoy the idea of far more people coming to our shores than they do currently, then continue not caring. This is in a time frame of most people's lives, and is avoidable. Whereas an asteroid type disaster is not expected in any reasonable timeframe.

What my personal impact is, is unimportant. For example, I'm not going to judge an American who lives in a car centric city, where they have to drive to do anything. They live in a high carbon economy. The UK is heading towards that in many ways, despite taking measures to counter it. There is little they can do to change that system in which they live. Short of voting for someone who will change things, or pushing those in power to do the right thing.

I do cycle most places, but I'm not going to judge people that don't. Most people I work with live too far from work to do this.