Is There a Worklessness Crisis?

[gant]

lol the way some reply to things in this forum, reminds me of good old Pat Ex.

Me: I really enjoyed running up Ben Nevis at the weekend, great fun.
Forum Member: Do you not realise 5 people a year injure themselves doing that very thing?!?

My point related to a group of people that proactively look for ways not to work. They have no intention of working. They seeketh ways to noteth worketh.

That point, the point I have made in the brief paragraph directly above, has diddly squat to do with how comfortably people can or can't live on benefits.

It genuinely makes me laugh that, when referring to a large group of people, the assertion is made that 100% of those in said group fall into the same camp. For example those who assert 100% of able bodied people on benefits would rather work. Ha Ha HAaaaaa.

You mean arguing for the sake of argument.
For instance the AR thread how many pages has that gone on for and who really gives a f*ck

 

[diy_fun_uk]

After reading both your posts, I am still struggling to understand the point you are making.

And I am totally bemused by your (over) reaction to my reply. I was simply adding to the discussion by pointing out what these young people might receive.

Does this help?

Me: Some of those on benefits choose not to work.
Other: How dare you! No one chooses to be on benefits. All of these people would much rather work.

Me: Some of those coming across on the small boats will be up to no good.
Other: How dare you! These are all people fleeing persecutions, to suggest they are not all genuine is a heinous thing to say.

Me: Some of the people in this audience won't be enjoying the performance.
Other: Eh? They've all bought tickets, of course they'll be enjoying the performance.

Me: I bet you some people in the Green Party secretly leave their heating on low 24/7.
Other: Eh? They're all in the Green Party, no one from that party will be doing that.


I'll say it again, when discussing a large group of people, it is verging on stupidity to assert 100% of that group are in one camp or another. I KNOW I am right when I say some people on benefits don't want to work. I KNOW I am right when I say some people on the small boats will be up to no good. etc etc.

Whether or not I agree with one side of the argument or the other is irrelevant. My underlying point is it's ridiculous to suggest no one is ever taking the p1ss when it comes to things like benefits, coming into this country etc etc.

This is partly why the UK is increasingly becoming a joke. We are increasingly incapable of holding up counter arguments as being valid if they don't fit the woke do-gooder narrative. OT but like JKR standing up for real women and getting shouted down from some quarters.

 

[Notch7]

AR thread how many pages has that gone on for and who really gives a f*c

Tory supporters, thats who

 

[JonathanM]

I'll say it again, when discussing a large group of people, it is verging on stupidity to assert 100% of that group are in one camp or another. I KNOW I am right when I say some people on benefits don't want to work. I KNOW I am right when I say some people on the small boats will be up to no good. etc etc.

I can see you are passionate about all this. But why did you target my post? I have never said any of those things.

You posted that a lot of young people are choosing not to work and prefer to live on benefits. I didn't dispute that. I wasn't arguing with you. All I did was inform the debate, for other members, by explaining what the young people who make this choice might receive. As far as I am concerned, that is how people have a discussion.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I can see you are passionate about all this. But why did you target my post? I have never said any of those things.

You posted that a lot of young people are choosing not to work and prefer to live on benefits. I didn't dispute that. I wasn't arguing with you. All I did was inform the debate, for other members, by explaining what the young people who make this choice might receive. As far as I am concerned, that is how people have a discussion.

Not targeting your post as such, however the correlation is weak even though we're discussing the same topic.

I am saying some people choose not to work.
You say living on benefits is tough.
My point remains ... some people choose not to work. How tough it is/isn't for them is irrelevant, they're choosing to do it.

 

[Notch7]

Other: How dare you! No one chooses to be on benefits. All of these people would much rather work

nobody said that

How dare you! These are all people fleeing persecutions, to suggest they are not all genuine is a heinous thing to say.

nobody said that

Other: Eh? They're all in the Green Party, no one from that party will be doing that

nobody said that

I'll say it again, when discussing a large group of people, it is verging on stupidity to assert 100% of that group are in one camp or another. I KNOW I am right when I say some people on benefits don't want to work. I KNOW I am right when I say some people on the small boats will be up to no good. etc etc

but that is the point

those who talk about "benefit scroungers" want to give the impression everybody who is on benefits is a scrounger

its creating a narrative....they want to blame a group of people, so they lump them all together and call them "benefit scroungers"


it is the reason why they get so defensive when they are asked what percentage............because that puts it into context

"benefit scroungers" are a small subset of people on benefits, if its say 1% then their message of "well they are benefit scroungers" becomes "well 1% of them are benefit scroungers"


the right wing media deliberately drive this narrative:

the same right wing media whose owners that are very rich and earn their money from assets....ie they are lazy and dont work

 

[Notch7]

My point remains ... some people choose not to work. How tough it is/isn't for them is irrelevant, they're choosing to do it

have you ever thought why?

are people happier not working?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

nobody said that


nobody said that


nobody said that




but that is the point

those who talk about "benefit scroungers" want to give the impression everybody who is on benefits is a scrounger

its creating a narrative....they want to blame a group of people, so they lump them all together and call them "benefit scroungers"


it is the reason why they get so defensive when they are asked what percentage............because that puts it into context

"benefit scroungers" are a small subset of people on benefits, if its say 1% then their message of "well they are benefit scroungers" becomes "well 1% of them are benefit scroungers"


the right wing media deliberately drive this narrative:

the same right wing media whose owners that are very rich and earn their money from assets....ie they are lazy and dont work

LOL

You are a classic example of the point I make, congratulations

 

[gant]

nobody said that


nobody said that


nobody said that




but that is the point

those who talk about "benefit scroungers" want to give the impression everybody who is on benefits is a scrounger

its creating a narrative....they want to blame a group of people, so they lump them all together and call them "benefit scroungers"


it is the reason why they get so defensive when they are asked what percentage............because that puts it into context

"benefit scroungers" are a small subset of people on benefits, if its say 1% then their message of "well they are benefit scroungers" becomes "well 1% of them are benefit scroungers"


the right wing media deliberately drive this narrative:

the same right wing media whose owners that are very rich and earn their money from assets....ie they are lazy and dont work

Right over notchys head again.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

have you ever thought why?

are people happier not working?

Because (and I KNOW this is a FACT) believe it or not some of them are ... you ready for this ... lazy! Or they simply prefer not to work. Yes, some people will be happier not working, can you not get your head around that FACT?

 

[blup]

I suspect a lot of folk on benefits - permanent long term benefits - voted brexhit, the toreys have to be careful how they treat this group.

 

[JonathanM]

I am saying some people choose not to work.
You say living on benefits is tough.
My point remains ... some people choose not to work. How tough it is/isn't for them is irrelevant, they're choosing to do it.

It is very relevant, though, for informing the wider debate and public perception. I think it is only logical that people will be more angry about those who do this if they believe they are living the life of riley.

 

[Notch7]

LOL

You are a classic example of the point I make, congratulations

It is important to qualify statements like "people on benefits are scroungers"

because otherwise the false narrative leads us to believe everybody on benefits is a scrounger

You are willfully avoiding that vital point


I am quite happy for you to say "some people on benefits are scroungers"
I am not happy for you to talk about " people on benefits are scroungers"

 

[Notch7]

Because (and I KNOW this is a FACT) believe it or not some of them are ... you ready for this ... lazy! Or they simply prefer not to work. Yes, some people will be happier not working, can you not get your head around that FACT?

How do you know they are happier not working?

 

[Notch7]

It is very relevant, though, for informing the wider debate and public perception. I think it is only logical that people will be more angry about those who do this if they believe they are living the life of riley.

people dont want context, they want it to be kept nice and simple so they can comfortably think of "people on benefits are lazy scroungers"

thats why they get so angry when we start talking about context.