New busbar for split-load consumer unit converted to all RCBO

[LostDutch]

Yes, I fear it became inevitable once the OP's 'qualifications' were questioned. However, it will probably get worse, since I don't think anyone has yet mentioned "type tested", nor the notification requirement which would be invoked if the OP followed the advice in the post which questioned his 'qualifications' !

Kind Regards, John

I was hoping that since this forum is for DIYers, this wouldn't happen. But I did notice the trend on other forums.

I've observed that this questioning of competency/qualifications and recommending to hire a qualified person to do the works is very much a cultural phenomenon. I've lived in the Netherlands for most of my life and it's very common for people to do maintenance on their own consumer unit, to (re-)wire their own homes, or install their own EV chargers. It's super easy to find instructions in Dutch online for replacing your consumer unit. Not that I used these, but just as an illustration how normal doing these works yourself is. I recently did some renovations on the roof of our house and people who saw it seemed to think that we were insane.

Maybe it'd be a good idea to question how productive it is to question people's competency/qualifications. After all, it's not like people are dying of electrocution and due to fires all the time in the Netherlands. It's also not like the regulations fail to result in good quality housing as new houses are excellent. Maybe it's just slightly less dangerous and difficult than those who feel competent/qualified think their work is? When it genuinely seems like someone might endanger themselves, of course you should advise people to get some help. But more often than not I find the "concerns" people voice are just echos of regulations rather than genuine concerns or attempts to educate and be helpful.

As I wittnessed when I moved in recently, some people are going to do DIY anyway, regardless of whether it's common or not. And if there's no good information out there to help them, they are going to create dangerous situations. If not on DIY forums, where are people supposed to get advice that educates them on how to do maintenance on their home's electrics?

Apologies for the rant @JohnW2 , this is not aimed at you. In this thread you just seemed like you'd have most sympathy for my perspective.

 

[LostDutch]

That doesn't appear to be true from the photographs posted.

Well I'm missing a component, I believe I mentioned this. Pretty obvious that it's not gonna look good when the breakers are not held in place correctly. It's to be expected that the old situation looks better than a work-in-progress photo while a component is missing.

Discussing your competency might help save your life, or the lives of the people subsequently using the installation.

See my view on the the UKs attitude towards competency/qualifications in another comment. The type of people who are going to do maintenance on their consumer unit any way are the type of people who post on these forums. By offering genuine helpful advice you'd do more to keep them save than by questioning their competency.

 

[robinbanks]

the bottom part of the bar is too tall for the clips that hold it in place

The MCB/RCD/RCBOs hold it in place, not the clips

which is not ideal

Why not? I can't see any of the wires clipped; what holds those in place?

(See pictures).

Er, so the one that I think is the newest one, is a bit of a disorganised mess, and I can't believe the cover will be easy to fit with all the breakers doing the Mexican wave like that.. Have you got some more breakers yet to install on the end of that bus bar?

 

[LostDutch]

I can't find such a thing; have you spelt it correctly?

Yes I have. But I have the same issue. I only found it in an old consumer unit catalogue.

Is that anything to worry about?

Yes and no. It fits well and makes good contact, just like the original busbar. The rating is also high enough. But it means that a breaker from a different brand that clamps down slightly differently on the busbar will cause everything to go crooked and uneven. The only safety concern I see of the busbar being held up by the breakers is that it might shift easier when a new breaker is installed and comprimising the contact that it has with the other breakers, without it being obvious to the installer. This would cause overheating on the non-protected side. The risk is small, but I'd like to avoid it.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes and no. It fits well and makes good contact, just like the original busbar. The rating is also high enough. But it means that a breaker from a different brand that clamps down slightly differently on the busbar will cause everything to go crooked and uneven.

Then that breaker should (shall) not be used.

The only safety concern I see of the busbar being held up by the breakers is that it might shift easier when a new breaker is installed and comprimising the contact that it has with the other breakers,

Rubbish.

without it being obvious to the installer.

Get another installer, then.

This would cause overheating on the non-protected side. The risk is small, but I'd like to avoid it.

Do it competently, then.

 

[LostDutch]

The MCB/RCD/RCBOs hold it in place, not the clips

This is acceptable? The issue is that behind the breakers is no full DIN rail, only the top ridge of a standard DIN rail. In the unit's design, the top of a breaker is mounted on the plastic, while the bottom part that would normally mount on the bottom of a DIN rail is not secured. Instead, the bus bar is relied on to hold the bottom of the breaker in place.

Why not? I can't see any of the wires clipped; what holds those in place?

What wires?

Er, so the one that I think is the newest one, is a bit of a disorganised mess, and I can't believe the cover will be easy to fit with all the breakers doing the Mexican wave like that.. Have you got some more breakers yet to install on the end of that bus bar?

Yea I agree. Because I removed the RCCB everything moved further to the right and some cables were exactly the right length for their previous configuration. Additionally, the neutral tail of the BG RCBO is miles long.

There is stuff improved that you can't see though. For starters, the two earth wires are not spanning across the unit anymore. And in the original one there were 2 cables wired to the earth terminal that put a lot of strain on the bar. These have been re-routed as well and some damaged insulation has been replaced with conduit.

 

[LostDutch]

Do it competently, then.

The main fuse is stuck (an Octopus Energy engineer tried to take it out and failed) and there's no isolator before the consumer unit. It's gonna be a while before I can install a new one.

 

[robinbanks]

This is acceptable? The issue is that behind the breakers is no full DIN rail, only the top ridge of a standard DIN rail.

You can buy new DIN rail and fix it in place if you want a better mount for breakers.. but if you're going to that extent why not get a new (metal) CU?!

What wires?

The red/brown/black/blue things!

Because I removed the RCCB everything moved further to the right and some cables were exactly the right length for their previous configuration.

RCBO everything and reuse old locations?

Additionally, the neutral tail of the BG RCBO is miles long.

It is, but it's not recommended to cut them.. They'll tuck away somewhere I'm sure

 

[robinbanks]

an Octopus Energy engineer tried to take it out and failed

That wouldn't dissuade me from having a go at succeeding where they failed; having seen some meter board builds I wouldn't place universally great faith in their mechanical competence

 

[SUNRAY]

Well I'm missing a component, I believe I mentioned this. Pretty obvious that it's not gonna look good when the breakers are not held in place correctly. It's to be expected that the old situation looks better than a work-in-progress photo while a component is missing.

See my view on the the UKs attitude towards competency/qualifications in another comment. The type of people who are going to do maintenance on their consumer unit any way are the type of people who post on these forums. By offering genuine helpful advice you'd do more to keep them save than by questioning their competency.

THE ONLY REASON we start discussing competency in this forum is when we see words or photos which indicate there is reason for doubt.

As a 'non qualified' member I see what you have done so far and start shrinking with fear, fear for your safety, fear for the safety of those who follow you and fear for those living in the property.

IF you are competent to work in consumer units you would not have to ask such questions (words part of my first paragraph) yes this is a DIY advice site and if you read a couple of dozen threads you will see we offer lots and lots of advice on how to do things properly and safely. When we start getting questions such as yours, we offer advice on how to resolve your situation properly and safely and indeed that is what has already happened but you chose to criticise the correct advice.

You have posted pictures of a very reasonable consumer unit installation before you started botching, seeing that my first reaction would have been to send a private message to ask for your address as I have random lengths of suitable bussbar and would have simply popped what you required in the post. Seeing your botch (photos part of my first paragraph) my instant reaction is simple; No way am I going to aid and abet such incompetence.
Doing this sort of work is for skilled people and the reason we as a nation have introduced restrictions on those permitted to do this work is due entirely the the very shoddy work produced by so many and the resulting problem, hazards and fires etcetera.

So where does this leave us?
Well it's extremely simple, DIYers come on here asking for advice and we assess the situation and capabilities and accordingly offer our best advice. When we see those same DIYers then complaining about not being allowed to do some thing and slagging off the competent members for offering the correct advice we tend to use naughty words in our heads about them.

We are not interested in the botches done in other countries or the way botchers are allowed to carry on their dangerous practices.

I'm certainly not going to start listing the multiple errors you have made so far. There is no excuse, not even 'I haven't finished the job'.

Apologies the the other participants of this thread If I've overstepped the mark, let me know and I'll happily remove.

 

[bernardgreen]

Apologies the the other participants of this thread If I've overstepped the mark, let me know and I'll happily remove.

You have definitely not overstepped the mark.

 

[pcaouolte]

Well I'm missing a component, I believe I mentioned this. Pretty obvious that it's not gonna look good when the breakers are not held in place correctly. It's to be expected that the old situation looks better than a work-in-progress photo while a component is missing.

The main fuse is stuck (an Octopus Energy engineer tried to take it out and failed) and there's no isolator before the consumer unit. It's gonna be a while before I can install a new one.

In your "work in progress" photo the main switch is on. You have said that you have no means of isolating the incoming supply to the CU, so this whole mess must be live.
You can't possibly get the cover on the CU with the devices in those positions.
You have an exposed busbar.
You have a neutral conductor with an exposed core.
At least one device that you have installed is not intended for use in that CU.
For some reason you can't understand why we don't believe that you are competent to do this work.

 

[SUNRAY]

Well I'm missing a component, I believe I mentioned this. Pretty obvious that it's not gonna look good when the breakers are not held in place correctly. It's to be expected that the old situation looks better than a work-in-progress photo while a component is missing.

See my view on the the UKs attitude towards competency/qualifications in another comment. The type of people who are going to do maintenance on their consumer unit any way are the type of people who post on these forums. By offering genuine helpful advice you'd do more to keep them save than by questioning their competency.

THE ONLY REASON we start discussing competency in this forum is when we see words or photos which indicate there is reason for doubt.

As a 'non qualified' member I see what you have done so far and start shrinking with fear, fear for your safety, fear for the safety of those who follow you and fear for those living in the property.

IF you are competent to work in consumer units you would not have to ask such questions (words part of my first paragraph) yes this is a DIY advice site and if you read a couple of dozen threads you will see we offer lots and lots of advice on how to do things properly and safely. When we start getting questions such as yours, we offer advice on how to resolve your situation properly and safely and indeed that is what has already happened but you chose to criticise the correct advice.

You have posted pictures of a very reasonable consumer unit installation before you started botching, seeing that my first reaction would have been to send a private message to ask for your address as I have random lengths of suitable bussbar and would have simply popped what you required in the post. Seeing your botch (photos part of my first paragraph) my instant reaction is simple; No way am I going to aid and abet such incompetence.
Doing this sort of work is for skilled people and the reason we as a nation have introduced restrictions on those permitted to do this work is due entirely the the very shoddy work produced by so many and the resulting problem, hazards and fires etcetera.

So where does this leave us?
Well it's extremely simple, DIYers come on here asking for advice and we assess the situation and capabilities and accordingly offer our best advice. When we see those same DIYers then complaining about not being allowed to do some thing and slagging off the competent members for offering the correct advice we tend to used naughty words in our heads about them.

We are not interested in the botches done in other countries or the way botchers are allowed to carry on their dangerous practices.

I'm certainly not going to start listing the multiple errors you have made so far. There is no excuse, not even 'I haven't finished the job'.

Apologies the the other participants of this thread If I've overstepped the mark, let me know and I'll happily remove.

I'll go further and say botches/shoddy work as shown in your picture (although I have to say I've seen a lot worse) by non qualified personnel has made a massive reduction in what competent personnel (which I believe I can claim to be) are permitted to do and give a bad name to people in my situation.

 

[SUNRAY]

In your "work in progress" photo the main switch is on. You have said that you have no means of isolating the incoming supply to the CU, so this whole mess must be live.
You can't possibly get the cover on the CU with the devices in those positions.
You have an exposed busbar.
You have a neutral conductor with an exposed core.
At least one device that you have installed is not intended for use in that CU.

You didn't mention it doesn't fit/not compatible.

For some reason you can't understand why we don't believe that you are competent to do this work.

 

[pcaouolte]

You didn't mention it doesn't fit/not compatible.

My list wasn't meant to be exhaustive.