Paris Olympics, Womens Boxing

Sex is the label assigned on a birth cert'. it may be correct, it may not be.
Gender is the role that people choose to enact in society.

The assignment of the 'sex' label is out of the child's control.
The choice of gender is within the person's control.
JohnD wants to deny people their choice of the role that they play in society.
Therefore in JohnD's mind, societal assigned roles are strictly determined by society, and individuals are not allowed to choose which role they wish to play.
 
JohnD said:
I don't need to.

Like me, she says Sex is real. It does not change on a whim.

It is a biological fact. It does not change with a piece of paper, or different clothes, or a claim.
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Clearly you haven't read the article or bothered to substantiate the facts of the matter, and simply repeat your prejudices - to be clear: neither boxer identifies as a Trans woman or even as a lesbian. They were born female and because of a swab test are being pilloried from post to Daily Post. Nobody icked up a fuss when they competed at the Tokyo Games, did they? Nobody batted an eye when they boxed in the Asian Games last year.
 
Odds said:
Clearly you haven't read the article or bothered to substantiate the facts of the matter, and simply repeat your prejudices - to be clear: neither boxer identifies as a Trans woman or even as a lesbian. They were born female and because of a swab test are being pilloried from post to Daily Post. Nobody icked up a fuss when they competed at the Tokyo Games, did they? Nobody batted an eye when they boxed in the Asian Games last year.
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JohnD's ideology (or is it a phobia), has been evident from the get-go on this thread.
JohnD said:
I wonder if one of the blokes will win.
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JohnD said:
The "winning" "woman" might have benefitted from a kick in the balls.

Reportedly, he is genetically male.
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He intentionally spreads malicious and dangerous rumours.
 
I think Rowling should stick to writing books also some others who should stick to their field that made them famous which adds weight to their personal perspective.

The question in this case is do the points noticed enhance boxing ability to the extent that it gives an unfair advantage. Most sports are split male female as in many cases the male would have an unfair advantage.

Changing tack a 6ft6 male is more likely to be of use to a basket ball team than some one who is 5ft. ;) Maybe a bit of an exaggeration so just a point.

Boxing has similar factors.Take heavyweight championship fight. Look at the details and a number of physical details will be found Span and others. Fact is if some one comes along who is too different to the other they would be better off choosing some other sport as they are highly unlikely to win or even get to fight any where near this level.

Strength. Women just like men can increase it. Training figures and even diet in some respects. Drugs may too. Body weight is influenced by several factors not just muscle mass.

TBH honest I got the impression that there was a physical sizes mismatch so one fighter was at a disadvantage from the word go. Camera angles don't help with making a definite comparison.

The winner was born female Has the correct bits as far as we know so the question is what effect the noted differences to the "norm" make.

For fun I'll throw in another factor
In humans, conditions that involve discrepancies between external genitalia and internal reproductive organs are described by the term intersex. Intersex conditions are sometimes also referred to as disorders of sexual development (DSDs). Such conditions are extremely rare in humans. In ovotesticular disorder (sometimes also called true hermaphroditism), an individual has both ovarian and testicular tissue. The ovarian and testicular tissue may be separate, or the two may be combined in what is called an ovotestis.
www.britannica.com

Hermaphroditism | Definition, Types, & Effects

Hermaphroditism, the condition of having both male and female reproductive organs. In humans, conditions that involve discrepancies between external genitalia and internal reproductive organs are described by the term ‘intersex.’ Learn about different forms of hermaphroditism and their treatment.
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com
 
ajohn said:
I think Rowling should stick to writing books also some others who should stick to their field that made them famous which adds weight to their personal perspective.

The question in this case is do the points noticed enhance boxing ability to the extent that it gives an unfair advantage. Most sports are split male female as in many cases the male would have an unfair advantage.
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All of this is irrelevant. Both of the relevant boxers were female. It says so on their birth cert's.
Thus, according to J K Rowling's definition, they were women.
And according to JohnD biological sex cannot be changed.

Of course we all accept that sex guessed at birth can be incorrectly assigned.
So we currently have a process available for people to correct their sex on their birth cert' if it is required or desired.

But usually that is not necessary because (currently) people are free to enact their preferred role in society. We call that role, 'gender', and it is not dependent on their sex on their birth cert'.
JohnD and J K Rowling want to deny that choice to people so that they must follow the societal determined role according to their correctly, or incorrectly, assigned sex on their birth cert'.
 
Mrs Doubtfyre said:
All of this is irrelevant.
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You might think so but I am not at all influenced by your views as for some reason you ignore why she was banned in one case and not in another. The main aspect to that is do the 2 rules mean something in practice. That is the only factor of any relevance. They may or they may not. You ignore the factors that need considering - not for the 1st time either on other subjects.
 
ajohn said:
You might think so but I am not at all influenced by your views as for some reason you ignore why she was banned in one case and not in another. The main aspect to that is do the 2 rules mean something in practice. That is the only factor of any relevance. They may or they may not. You ignore the factors that need considering - not for the 1st time either on other subjects.
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According to JK Rowlings definition of a woman, (And I assume JohnD would agree) she is OK to compete as a woman.
If it's good enough for her, it should be good enough for everyone.

Where's that sick emoji gone again.
1722695112691.png
 
JohnD said:
A piece of paper does not cause you to be a woman, or a man
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J K Rowling's definition more or less covers every eventuality of a baby being assigned the sex as Female if the genitals resemble those of a female. Unfortunately the diagnosis is usually based solely on the appearance of the genitals. It doesn't usually entail any further diagnosis.
And as you appear to be her disciple, I assume you base your ideology on hers.

So, if it says female on her birth certificate, then she's a woman when she grows up. Unless her birth cert' is corrected, which you claim is not possible.
So if it says female on her birth cert', she's a woman when she grows up. Whether that reflects reality is immaterial.
So, if the birth cert' cannot be corrected later, the sex on a piece of paper does cause you to be a woman or a man. But it doesn't determine your gender.
That's that sorted.

Of course if the birth cert' can be corrected at a later date, then the certificate will reflect reality.
 
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JohnD said:
If it is a role they choose, it does not change or determine their biological sex.
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Agreed. By Jove! I do believe you're getting it.
They are free to choose the role (what we call 'gender') that they feel the best suits them.
They can apply for a gender recognition cert', which will legally respect them as their preferred gender.
They can pursue the process of changing their birth cert' also if they wish.
And they can seek gender affirmation surgery, which will make them look like their preferred gender.
if they look like their preferred gender, and their birth cert' shows their preferred sex, they are, to all intents and purpose, that sex and gender.

And J K Rowlings can re-appraise her definition of a woman. :giggle:
 
ajohn said:
You might think so but I am not at all influenced by your views as for some reason you ignore why she was banned in one case and not in another.
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I'm not ignoring the previous rulings, I'm very aware of them.
a) we don't know why she was banned, it's top secret, and probably politically motivated
b) According to J K Rowling's definition of a woman, they are women, it says so on their birth certificate.

Both JohnD and Ms Rowling would have us believe that mistakes are so rare they can be discounted.
They would also have us believe that biological sex cannot be changed.

So they are undoubtedly female.
 
ajohn said:
Wow. A number of stupid posts all by the same person.
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If you are referring to my comments, don't bother with highlighting anything you might disagree with.
And as for presenting any reasonable counter argument, don't bother with stuff like that.
Just a wide sweeping insulting statement with no details will suffice. :rolleyes:
 
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