Paris Olympics, Womens Boxing

IBA Russian president, Umar Kremlev, claimed that DNA test results showed the two athletes have XY chromosomes, citing it as the reason they were disqualified in the world championships. The IBA also cited high levels of testosterone in Khelif's system.
www.nbcnewyork.com

Fact Check: Olympics boxing gender testing controversy explained

Political outrage surrounding two women competing in boxing at the Paris Olympics stems from “a lot of misinformation,” an International Olympics Committee spokesperson said Friday. It all began when the IOC said Algerian boxer Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting of Taiwan were allowed to compete at...
www.nbcnewyork.com www.nbcnewyork.com
IBA rules prevent boxers with XY chromosomes from competing in women's events, but the IOC says inclusion should be the default criteria. It is the IOC which has set the rules for boxing in Paris
www.skysports.com

Olympics 2024: IOC says it is saddened by abuse boxers are receiving over 'arbitrary' gender row

Algerian boxer Imane Khelif, who was disqualified from the World Championships last year, won her opening Olympic bout after her opponent quit; Taiwans double world champion Lin Yu-ting, who also lost her bronze medal at the World Championships, is scheduled to compete on Friday at 2.30pm
www.skysports.com www.skysports.com

So 2 different rulings have been used. Some body such as the IOC will need to make a decision on which way they go. Views on here aren't really relevant. I'd guess it will finish up with some definition of a normal women. The BBC mentioned that some sports have tighter limits but no details. As the subject has cropped up the same question might be asked concerning professional sports.
 
ajohn said:
I'd guess it will finish up with some definition of a normal women.
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I thought JohnD and J K Rowling had already published their opinion on what constitutes a woman.
I believe a woman is a human being who belongs to the sex class that produces large gametes. It’s irrelevant whether or not her gametes have ever been fertilised, whether or not she’s carried a baby to term, irrelevant if she was born with a rare difference of sexual development that makes neither of the above possible, or if she’s aged beyond being able to produce viable eggs. She is a woman and just as much a woman as the others.
Click to expand...
https://twitter.com/x/status/1776616861888655835

Hmm, as gametes can be ova or sperm, that's her theory blown out of the water.
Gametes are an organism's reproductive cells. They are also referred to as sex cells. Female gametes are called ova or egg cells, and male gametes are called sperm.
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gamete / gametes

The reproductive cell of an organism; typically contains half or a reduced number of chromosomes compared to a somatic cell. In mammals, gametes are haploid cells that fuse to form a diploid zygote.
www.nature.com

But to be fair, she does go on to list all the exceptions that show that a woman, (of all possible variations) can still be a woman, which kind of negates her original definition anyway.
So, basically she's just covered all the angles, get-outs, variables, possible exceptions, and alternatives, with obfuscation. :rolleyes:
I don’t believe a woman is more or less of a woman ... for taking up boxing.
Click to expand...
J K Rowling.

Slam dunk, I believe.
Perhaps we should make her guidance, exceptions, alternatives, omissions, etc, freely available to all those assigning sex to babies. :rolleyes:
 
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Odds said:
But you cannot get a passport without a birth certificate, and her certificate states she was born female.
QED.
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mrs doubtfire tells us that a birth certificate can be mistaken
 
Mrs doubtfire tells us that a man who says "I am a woman" is a woman

But he denies that a man who says "I am a giraffe" is a giraffe.
 
Odds said:
Take it up with Mizz Rowling in that case.
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I don't need to.

Like me, she says Sex is real. It does not change on a whim.

It is a biological fact. It does not change with a piece of paper, or different clothes, or a claim.
 
Mrs Doubtfyre said:
Hmm, as gametes can be ova or sperm, that's her theory blown out of the water.
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dishonest doubtfire pretends he can't see the word "large"

Which is larger? An Ovum? Or a Sperm?

"her theory blown out of the water."
No, actually it's doubtfires dishonest attempt to write a theory of his own
 
JohnD said:
mrs doubtfire tells us that a birth certificate can be mistaken
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I said a mistakes can be, and are, made on assigning sex to babies.
A birth cert' (in UK) has only a binary option. In addition there is a time limit after birth for a birth cert' to be completed.
In cases of doubt, it's obvious that a best guess, made in in all sincerity and hope, will be a natural occurrence.
Fortunately, gender is not determined by such a fallible issues as a birth cert'.
But a birth cert' can also be corrected.
 
JohnD said:
Mrs doubtfire tells us that a man who says "I am a woman" is a woman

But he denies that a man who says "I am a giraffe" is a giraffe.
Click to expand...
You don't seem to be aware that a giraffe is a different species to a human. :rolleyes:
No matter, and rest assured (forum, take note) I j have no intention of educating you. :giggle:
 
Mrs Doubtfyre said:
Fortunately, gender is not determined by such a fallible issues as a birth cert'.
Click to expand...

For people like yourself, you use the word "gender" to mean a preference, a choice, a desire, a fantasy, a whim

"Gender" is not shown on a birth certificate.

It can change at any time.

However, biological sex can not.

Your whims do not affect your ability in sports.
 
JohnD said:
I don't need to.

Like me, she says Sex is real. It does not change on a whim.
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That's true biological sex does not change on a whim, it takes medical intervention.
But gender can change. Gender assignment is a reversible process.

JohnD said:
It is a biological fact. It does not change with a piece of paper, or different clothes, or a claim.
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It is a legal fact that gender is recognised legally, as is sex.
So sex does not determine gender.
Glad we got that sorted. :rolleyes:
 
JohnD said:
dishonest doubtfire pretends he can't see the word "large"

Which is larger? An Ovum? Or a Sperm?

"her theory blown out of the water."
No, actually it's doubtfires dishonest attempt to write a theory of his own
Click to expand...
But the ability to produce ova is not a criteria for being a woman. :rolleyes:
J K Rowling says so, :rolleyes:
I believe a woman is a human being who belongs to the sex class that produces large gametes. It’s irrelevant ... if she was born with a rare difference of sexual development that makes neither of the above possible,..... She is a woman and just as much a woman as the others.
Click to expand...
Like I said, she covers all her bases, and practically makes her claim useless and easily repudiated.
Women who cannot produce gametes are still women because their birth cert' says so, according to Ms Rowling, because their genitals at birth resembled female genitals more than male genitals.
The process for determining a baby's sex does not include the testing of whether they have the biological equipment to produce gametes.
The only test that is used is the sight test, what do the genitals look like?
Thus, we, and her, have already acknowledged that mistakes in the assignment of sex occurs. So, according to JKR a woman incorrectly assigned 'female' at birth is still a woman, irrespective of reality. (and both relevant boxers were assigned 'female' at birth)
Of course, in the instance of doubt, or lack of clarity, further tests are conducted, if the parents consent. and some may not.

The stigma attached to DSD is still fomented by those with Victorian attitudes to anything concerning sex. This sadly affects parents and sufferers of DSD, due to a natural accident, for the rest of their lives.

And going back to the topic, both boxers were assigned female at birth, they are not and never have been transgender, despite your attempt to spread false and mendacious rumours.
 
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JohnD said:
For people like yourself, you use the word "gender" to mean a preference, a choice, a desire, a fantasy, a whim

"Gender" is not shown on a birth certificate.

It can change at any time.

However, biological sex can not.
Click to expand...
Sex can be changed on a birth cert'. :rolleyes:
A woman can legally be a man
Gender doesn't need to be shown on a birth cert' because the one does not depend on the other.

JohnD said:
Your whims do not affect your ability in sports.
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Of course they do. Whims, dreams, wishes and ambitions determine the motivation to succeed, and affect the training that goes into sport.
 
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