Wales becomes Trumpton

That 20 is safer than 30? Does anybody other than mbk think this?

You might want to edit this, to make it say what you intended it to in the first place.

No figures from Wales yet whether its proven right or not, too soon to tell for most, in this specific case.

The data was there from previous implementations, and modelling: the point was that (the WA?) "manipulated" / cherry-picked the data that supported what they wanted to do, as they were set on implementation regardless.

Are you really so naive as to believe that politicians always implement what the data tells them is best / most sensible?
Rather than find/fudge the data to support what they are going to do?
 
Does refresher training mean it's safer to drive faster?
Do you think a new driver, just fresh from training, is the best type of driver?

Any proof that faster speeds are safer than lower?


It is not just about speed.

If it was, there would be no need for offences such as careless, reckless, or dangerous driving, nor for drink driving, using a mobile phone................

To boil it down to speed alone demonstrates ignorance at best, and deliberate trolling at worst.


There is far more to "safe" driving, than what the numbers on a dashboard and a sign display.
 
It is not just about speed.

If it was, there would be no need for offences such as careless, reckless, or dangerous driving, nor for drink driving, using a mobile phone................

To boil it down to speed alone demonstrates ignorance at best, and deliberate trolling at worst.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.
 
It is not just about speed.

If it was, there would be no need for offences such as careless, reckless, or dangerous driving, nor for drink driving, using a mobile phone................

To boil it down to speed alone demonstrates ignorance at best, and deliberate trolling at worst.


There is far more to "safe" driving, than what the numbers on a dashboard and a sign display.
You might want to go back to what mbk claims though .
 
You might want to edit this, to make it say what you intended it to in the first place.
That 20 is safer than 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 ?

Is it disputed?
The data was there from previous implementations, and modelling: the point was that (the WA?) "manipulated" / cherry-picked the data that supported what they wanted to do, as they were set on implementation regardless.

Are you really so naive as to believe that politicians always implement what the data tells them is best / most sensible?
Rather than find/fudge the data to support what they are going to do?
Mbk tells us it's too soon to tell from the data but is using incorrect and incomplete data to prove that its all wrong.

He has decided on his verdict regardless.

Am I saying 20 everywhere is correct? No. I am saying the figures MAY prove a case for it in more places than expected though.
 
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.

I disagree with you.

Each time Motorbiking raises any point re: free-travelling vs impact speed, road conditions, lines of sight etc, yourself, Carman, and Nosey - to name the three main protagonists - just jump right back in, fingers in ears, and even start throwing up strawmen.


I honestly don't believe that this properly describes his driving - I think it is pure trollery, but that's just my opinion - but, if you take Nosey at his written word, he hovers around the speed limit, yet states that he struggles with distractions sometimes.

I'd rather not be the one who steps in front of the 27mph driver who is distracted, preferring to do so in front of the one who was doing 33, but anticipated me and had slowed enough to not hit me at all..................


But, like I said, I reckon much of this is trolling now.
 
The issue you raise is driving standards and ability.

Do you know of any other way to limit the dangers other than speed limits?

Surely you don't agree that it's safe for all to drive at the speed they choose to be appropriate?
 
That 20 is safer than 30? Does anybody other than mbk think this?


Do you actually mean


"That 20 is safer than 30? Does anybody other than MBK think this is not the case?"


What you have typed says that only MBK thinks 20 is safer than 30 (which is the exact opposite of your position).
 
Do you actually mean


"That 20 is safer than 30? Does anybody other than MBK think this is not the case?"


What you have typed says that only MBK thinks 20 is safer than 30 (which is the exact opposite of your position).
Does anybody other than mbk think this is NOT the case?
 
The above is exactly my point (regarding this thread).

Certain posters have got so heated and blinkered to what is written - even by themselves - that they're just jumping back in with putdowns, counterposts, and generally just being contrary "because".

At least Carman didn't double down on his.
 
yourself, Carman, and Nosey - to name the three main protagonists - just jump right back in, fingers in ears, and even start throwing up strawmen.
I think speed is relevant, mbk doesn't. What do you think?
 
Rather than responding to individual posts (and parts thereof), it is probably clearly for me to state my own position, as logically as I can.


Generally, we have policing by consent.

Consent is best arrived at when "the law" is warranted, practicable, justifiable. When it "makes sense".
If it is not, it'll just get ignored by more and more people, until it becomes farcical (and a waste of time and resources).

The point of [cars, for simplicity] is to get from A to B.
If we wanted complete safety (from cars), we'd just outright ban them.

So we, as a society, accept a degree of risk, which is hopefully more-than-offset by the benefit gained.

The level of risk varies depending on a number of factors.

For simplicity, I'll assume (incorrectly, but for simplicity) that all drivers are of equivalent competence and safety, with regard to eyesight, skill, judgement, reaction times, etc etc.
I'll do the same for all cars too - same stopping distance capabilities, same handling parameters, etc etc.
And for all road surfaces - all equally well-maintained, all the same grip levels, etc etc.
And assume the weather is always fine, dry, and clear.


The variables now are (non-exhaustive list):

- posted speed limit
- width of roadway
- whether it is single or dual-carriageway
- presence of, width of, pavements
- presence or absence of side junctions
- presence or lack of bends

etc etc



As not all roads are the same, in terms of risk, not all speed limits can be justified as being equal either.


Enforcing a blanket "20mph" was doomed to fail, because most sensible drivers would see them to be unjustified in however many circumstances, and some of those would ignore them.
 
I'd rather not be the one who steps in front of the 27mph driver who is distracted, preferring to do so in front of the one who was doing 33, but anticipated me and had slowed enough to not hit me at all..................
The thing is, we have no way of knowing to what extent each driver is concentrating on the task. Stating the obvious now, however the level of concentration will vary and we have no tangible way to measure it.

Therefore I'd assert it's best if all drivers stick to the speed limit (or at least thereabouts) to mitigate against such variables as driver concentration.
 
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