Wind Turbines

ajohn said:
The UN climate lady was on the box. Must check this out. She is Danish. People have a phone app that tells them it's windy enough and their electricity is coming from that. It makes them happy and may restrict usage when it's not windy.

If true one country has got it's finger out of it's a rse.
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Did you discover all this by googling 'Danish ladies with fingers up the @RSE'?
 
Justin Passing said:
Nope. It doesn't say that. Still not honest. Never mind, you aren't kidding anyone.
Bear in mind most people have never seen one or considered having one close to them. Large areas would be needed too.
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It says exactly that in your table. The South West has the highest 'unhappy' numbers of 15%.

Can't you read?
 
Don't be facetious if you want to be taken seriously.
No, it does not say wind farms are popular.. As I already wrote, onshore wind is the least popular renewable after biomass.
Your report says that.

I have also read the people who pick the BEIS reports to bits, Haven't you? Some of then are nutters, but not all.


How "Happy" would folk be with wind farms in their back yard particularly if they knew who would be likely to own them?

There's a ton I haven't read, but it appears that the big offshore wind farms are built on RO (Renewables Obligation) grants yet are foreign owned.
NB this is a couple of years old. The point is that we let them shaft us, according to knowledge at the time:

EG:
London Array offshore wind farm, 2.2TWh p.a. Jointly owned by the German owned RWE, the Canadian investor CDPQ, Orsted the Danish state owned energy company and the strategic investment company of the Government of Abu Dhabi, MASDAR. At current wholesale prices, London Array is making about £800 million a year more than they would have at 2019 prices.
Biggest in descending order thereafter of output in 2020
Code: 
Race Bank         2 TWh pa         – Macquarie (Australian), Orsted, Sumitomo Bank
Greater Gabbard   1.6 Twh pa       – RWE Renewables(German), SSE Renewables(Scot)
Gwynt y Mor       1.4TWh pa        – RWE Renewables, Stadtwerke Munchen, UK Green Investment Bank(Brit)
Rampion           1.4TWh pa        – RWE Renewables, Enbridge(Canadian) Offshore Wind Company
Galloper          1.3TWh  pa       – RWE Renewables, Siemens, Macquarie, ESB (Eire), Spring Infra(Brit)
West Duddon       1.3TWh pa        – Scottish Power, Orsted
Thanet            0.9TWh pa        – Vattenfall
Sheringham        0.9TWh pa        – Equinor(Norwegian), Statkraft, UK Green Investment Bank

None of the consortia are retail electricity suppliers in the UK, so would be shielded from any windfall tax on or nationalisation of energy suppliers, (Excl Scot and SSE)

"You can bet your life that these “electricity suppliers” will be structured in such a way that they will never pay any tax, anywhere on Earth."



There's a host of articles which point out the ridiculous prices paid for offshore electricity. When it was built, Hornsea CFD price was was 8 times the going rate per MWh atthe time. Why? It's just happenstance that the war has changed the numbers so much in their favour, so it's more like hallf.
One:
alethonews.com

‘Obscene’ windfarm subsidies revealed

Global Warming Policy Forum | April 16, 2021 GWPF research has shown that just six offshore windfarms are now sharing £1.6 billion pounds in subsidies between them every year. Three receive annual …
alethonews.com alethonews.com
https://alethonews.com/2020/06/09/bbc-brags-about-hornsea-wind-farm-but-forgets-to-mention-the-cost/ (It was struck at 16p/kWh at the time when the wholesale price I find was about 3p.)
Looks mad - maybe there was more to it..

It begs the question - what happens when 15 years is up inflation will have made the maintenace 4x higher. It won't be worth doing.. The owners will let them dilapidate, and sharp at the end of 15 years, they'll sell the bloody things which we paid for, back to us.

We should make out own turbines and controllers and own our own farms.
 
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If only there was a financial whizzfish to swim by and explain it all to us...:rolleyes:
 
Justin Passing said:
The owners will let them dilapidate, and sharp at the end of 15 years,
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More likely decommission and offset against tax as shell has been doing for a few years with rigs so pays no tax. That it seems would be 40% if they had.
Personally I would be cautious about fully accepting the kwhr renewable costs mentioned by people who are all for it. There is a tendency to make unrealistic assumptions as they do when wind turbines performance is spec'd. That doesn't mean I am not for them. I'm just pointing a fact out.

JohnD said:
The Dork will call it Marxism.
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Were does all this crap come from. It's historical really. It goes back to WWII and what Stalin achieved. Some concluded that a fully managed state solves all problems and is efficient. Well even Putin realises that communism of that style is a dead end. It has a strange effect. Say some one lived in a state like that and wanted a mobile phone. There would only be one model available.Very efficient and fine if it was the best. Another example which isn't so simple say it was applied to hauliers. Just one company. A truck takes something somewhere and unloads. It should be easier to arrange for them to reload and take more stuff elsewhere. Fewer empty trucks driving about.

Money is globalised now. Time for a bit of a rethink. Not for everything just in areas where state ownership makes more sense. Globalised money will always send profit elsewhere. Share dealing over time will as well.
 
StGeorgie said:
This is in no way financial advice, but I would be VERY cautious about investing money in such a scheme.

Sure, there is a novelty value & you'll always be able to wave your green credentials, but even a basic cursory glance over the figures will show that this is a very poor investment.
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That makes me smile. Some one is trying to crowd fund wind farms. Suppose it's a nice bit of lateral thinking that has been used in other areas and a few people who do it end up making a lot of money.

They are not using Kickstarter etc who would take a cut if they did.
 
JohnD said:
I don't think Marx advocated Stalinism.
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Marx just made a valid point so the term marxism doesn't really make much sense

Marxism is a social, political, and economic theory originated by Karl Marx that focuses on the struggle between capitalists and the working class. Marx wrote that the power relationships between capitalists and workers were inherently exploitative and would inevitably create class conflict.

In terms of stalinism some finish up richer than others - the ruling class.

Times change. China is a business. Some get richer than others. :) A point Corbyn was trying to make is that their gov can choose to say this will happen and it will. He'd like to do the same in some areas.
 
ajohn said:
More likely decommission and offset against tax as shell has been doing for a few years with rigs so pays no tax. That it seems would be 40% if they had.
Personally I would be cautious about fully accepting the kwhr renewable costs mentioned by people who are all for it. There is a tendency to make unrealistic assumptions as they do when wind turbines performance is spec'd. That doesn't mean I am not for them. I'm just pointing a fact out.
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That's what I was saying , in effect.
ajohn said:
Say some one lived in a state like that and wanted a mobile phone. There would only be one model available.Very efficient and fine if it was the best. Another example which isn't so simple say it was applied to hauliers. Just one company. A truck takes something somewhere and unloads. It should be easier to arrange for them to reload and take more stuff elsewhere. Fewer empty trucks driving about.
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That sort-of happens say with truck trailer connections etc.


I'm sure it's been analyzed to death but it FEELS to me that some industries should be controlled by the state. There should be zero opportunity for others to play around selfishly with things I, - we all -, rely on.
Should be something like private schools.
Here are the standards
You can charge what you like etc, carry on
We will send inspectors in to make sure you're complying.
If you don't, we'll shut you down. You lose.
No single school/power provider can be so big as to be indispensable. (Sounds like monopolies rule.)
 
Justin Passing said:
That sort-of happens say with truck trailer connections etc.
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We finish up with loads of what are now called logistic companies. This is where things get tricky. Competitive but all have the same basic running costs. Size varies. Rail is now like that with some aspects privatised. A tricky one.

TheTory appear to be at it

PORTON BIOPHARMA LIMITED persons with significant control - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

PORTON BIOPHARMA LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

SHEFFIELD FORGEMASTERS INTERNATIONAL LIMITED persons with significant control - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

SHEFFIELD FORGEMASTERS INTERNATIONAL LIMITED - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

That last one disturbs me. Is the take over purely down for defence or will it improve their export capability. They are a capable company. Labour were going to help them get a loan for some modernisation. Blocked by the Tory when they got in.

It doesn't matter who owns the shares of a company. What matter is how effectively the business is run. Hire and fire as needed. Justifiable spends on CapEx as needed. They need to make a profit. Those 2 secretaris know f ' all about the businesses they have significant control of. They may interfere for political reasons. Bad news. One aspect of previous privitisation was no need to evolve. It wasn't stressed enough. That is generally now seen to not be a problem. They can if they have enough money and it's used in viable ways.

Then comes something that often crops up - no solution is perfect. Some may just be better than others.
 
BMW have pulled out of making their low emission electric cars in Britain because our low emission electricity is too expensive and have moved production to China which has cheap, coal fired electric.
 
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