Wind Turbines

[Justin Passing]

I just noticed that Windfarms are currently producing 55% of UK electricity demand.

It's wonderful.

Every kWh from wind is a heap of gas not burned, leaving more money in the nation's pocket, and (by reducing world hydrocarbon demand) a bit less in Putin's.

Yes it's good. Whether it's GREAT or not I'm still reserving some judgement. Still reading, but not in a hurry. There's a large number of papers , studies, trials, all of which give partial information, most of which say silly - or at least tendentious - , things.
You can spot some in the early paragraphs. If it sets off on the theme that either of these is true, you need a red pen ready to strike out some crap:

• 
  Once you've built them your fuel is free (Ofthingy)
  They're hopeless because the wind might not blow

It's complicated, but especially as the gas price has moved, wind is cheaper, I think, though an analysis including carbon payments, present and future subsidies etc, isn't easy to find.
As far as I can see we as consumers don't benefit anyway, at all, because of the "coupled" pricing strategy. Which is mad. Where exactly the money (difference between say wind and gas costs) ends up, I haven't worked out!

We're certainly "lucky" to have what we do, plus our gas, you would think. But with our leccy prices based on the highest cost contributing fuel, I think it makes no difference to the price we pay. It may make a partial difference; link please if I'm off, there.

The situation in Germany is interesting.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts.

They don't have much wind but (apart fom a load of coal) they do have much solar. Indeed if you drive around , it's "everywhere", embedded.
If you compare those graphs with this, you can see that they have the same spinners as everyone else:

Germany hits 50% solar, Ireland 50% wind

… but reports about new record shares of renewable power are understandably celebratory, but they also confuse the public – and even experts.

reneweconomy.com.au

You can see they're a lot less dependent on gas than we are

Power Purchase Agreements, (PPAs) through AXPO, are working Europe-wide (despite brexit) so our entanglement with those may prevent the de-coupling of supply source pricing HMG suggested. Pretty boring stuff to read through.
(One contract recently struck has 15 years to run).

Even if we throroughly isolated our supplies/pricings from the EU, the companies producing here can still be bought up by EU companies. Eg Hornsea 2 is half French owned.

Ugh.

 

[Justin Passing]

The party "Reform UK" have an energy plan that seems sensible:

https://assets.nationbuilder.com/re...1866/Reform-5-Year-Energy-Plan.pdf?1661361866

Key Point: We have vast resources of energy treasure in UK under our feet and under our seas - owned by us all

Fracking? - We don't, for practical purposes. They're lying. Forget it.
France eg has far more than us and much less of problems with rock geology and locations, but they aren't touching it either.

Pollutants are horrible and there aren't the Standards to control them because nobody has enough experience,
You need a load of water - which nobody has spare. Thre are theoreticaly waterless methods but they bring a load more problems.
People don't like earth tremors either.
Most of our frackable gas is under densely populated areas, unlike France.

Somebody might come up with a better method, but it still leaks CH4 and produces CO2.

 

[blup]

Make on shore wind turbines permitted development (with certain basic exceptions for location and height) and let market forces take over, the demand will be huge. Incentivise this further by not automatically linking green production prices to carbon ones. It won't happen because of the tory rural support would be harmed, but it would be a lot quicker than - and possibly remove the need for - so much nuclear.

Blup

 

[Justin Passing]

Make on shore wind turbines permitted development (with certain basic exceptions for location and height) and let market forces take over, the demand will be huge. Incentivise this further by not automatically linking green production prices to carbon ones. It won't happen because of the tory rural support would be harmed, but it would be a lot quicker than - and possibly remove the need for - so much nuclear.

Blup

I thought something like that, but the way it works is crap. Lots of people online point it out. The profit, again, goes to individuals not the people who have the turbines foisted on them.
I think offshore turbines are several times the output too, they're enormous and the winds are much more reliable

So you'd get thousands of the things dotted all over the place, not producing very much compared to a field out at sea. And the profit goes to..... some bloke in Frankfurt or Paris or Benidorm. With the price set by Putin's gas because it's "coupled".
One of the articles I saw about it (by a tory MP I think) concluded "Sod that" , and I'm inclined to agree.

 

[Notch7]

The Monarchy own the British coastline and they get royalties from wind turbines.

The King should change the rules as the Crown Estates shouldnt profit from renewables.

 

[Justin Passing]

The Monarchy own the British coastline and they get royalties from wind turbines.

The King should change the rules as the Crown Estates shouldnt profit from renewables.

Link?

 

[gant]

Thought you'd have known that JP.

 

[Justin Passing]

Link? How much Royalty?

 

[gant]

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/985093/the-queen-set-for-a-bumper-payout-from-offshore-wind-985093.html

 

[Justin Passing]

https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/985093/the-queen-set-for-a-bumper-payout-from-offshore-wind-985093.html

Thanks.
Tiny percentage then, and it goes into the state. Half goes to maintaining Buck house. Not an issue, is it?
I guess there has to be some control over what gets plonked just offshore.

 

[gant]

I just provided the link, it was notch who didn't think they should be profiting from renewables.

 

[Justin Passing]

Oh right, soz. Kingy's probably profiting from fossil fuels too then, shock horror.

 

[IT Minion]

China has decided to go even bigger on Wind farms again. 43GW of capacity in one farm alone.

China Building World's Largest Offshore Wind Farm - 43.3 Gigawatts - CleanTechnica

The world's largest offshore wind farm will be constructed in the Taiwan Strait and should be operational by 2025.

cleantechnica.com

 

[blup]

I thought something like that, but the way it works is crap. Lots of people online point it out. The profit, again, goes to individuals not the people who have the turbines foisted on them.

Why should local residents share in the profits of green energy generation?

I think offshore turbines are several times the output too, they're enormous and the winds are much more reliable

93% of wind generation is on shore

So you'd get thousands of the things dotted all over the place, not producing very much compared to a field out at sea.

See above

And the profit goes to..... some bloke in Frankfurt or Paris or Benidorm. With the price set by Putin's gas because it's "coupled".

Like electricity generation and supply companies?

One of the articles I saw about it (by a tory MP I think) concluded "Sod that" , and I'm inclined to agree.

A reasoned response.

Blup

 

[IT Minion]

93% of wind generation is on shore

That's not correct for the UK.

By 2022, the UK had over 11 thousand wind turbines with a total installed capacity of over 25 gigawatts (GW): 14 GW onshore and 11 GW offshore,[4]

Wind power in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Onshore is better value, you don't need the scale of installation to make sense as there's no need to install giant HVDC lines to bring power back. But you do have to get 200m tall turbines past planning, which at the moment is nearly impossible.