ITV debate

martygturner said:
Just seen a bit from conservative home... seems like starmer knew it was a lie, let rishi catch himself out in a lie and will now spend the rest of the campaign banging on about how the tories cannot be trusted. They pointed to the spin room for journos after the debate when the labour strategists could not keep a straight face. Mission accomplished was the quote they have put up, now complaining that it was a labour trap....
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I’ve no idea if it was planned or not.

But it does give an opportunity to discredit Sunak, there’s a pretty emphatic civil service letter doing the rounds that says Sunak is lying.

That won’t alter committed lifelong Tories, but it might hit with swing voters.
 
JonathanM said:
That would explain his strange non-engagement the first eleven times Sunak mentioned it. But maybe they have been a bit too clever. This government already had a terrible reputation for lying. Labour didn't need this £2,000 tax story in the headlines.
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Starmy came across as a lawyer with a pre prepared case, dull. The price of copying the toreys instead of having some decent left of centre policies.
 
blup said:
Starmy came across as a lawyer with a pre prepared case, dull. The price of copying the toreys instead of having some decent left of centre policies.
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I hadn't realised quite how dull until last night. That seems to be what the country wants, though, after Boris and Lettuce. The right man at the right time.
 
JonathanM said:
I hadn't realised quite how dull until last night. That seems to be what the country wants, though, after Boris and Lettuce. The right man at the right time.
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Dull is ok if the policies are clear and appropriate. If I was a brexxer torey I would give him a chance if only to let the cons sort themselves out over the next 5 years.
 
blup said:
instead of having some decent left of centre policies
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that would ensure Labour would lose

Corbyn tried twice, failed twice

the debate last night, with Sunak endlessly attacking Labour on tax and on spending plans should tell you how "left of centre policies" would have worked out.


In any case Im not sure how any party could possibly implement "left of centre policies" when cost of borrowing is so high
 
Notch7 said:
that would ensure Labour would lose

Corbyn tried twice, failed twice

the debate last night, with Sunak endlessly attacking Labour on tax and on spending plans should tell you how "left of centre policies" would have worked out.


In any case Im not sure how any party could possibly implement "left of centre policies" when cost of borrowing is so high
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This same Rishi who wanted every kid to do maths can't even get his figures right.

He promised to bring integrity.

www.theguardian.com

Sunak vows to bring ‘integrity’ to No 10 but gambles by restoring Braverman

New PM pledges to fix ‘mistakes’ of predecessor but return of former home secretary alarms some MPs
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
blup said:
The price of copying the toreys instead of having some decent left of centre policies.
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So they haven't got any left leaning polices? Just to jog your memory recollect Unite being up in arms concerning changes in workers rights. Well that was what was being said on here. Fact it that they were a bit concerned about misuse of one of the clauses. Press/media bloat gave another impression.
LOL Copying the Tory? No sticking to what is feasible.
 
blup said:
Dull is ok if the policies are clear and appropriate.
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which if these do you think are not clear or not appropriate:

end VAT free private schools
collective wage bargaining
end zero hour contracts
end fire rehire
reform HoL
rebuild relationship with EU
repeal anti union laws
give more power to regions
more grants to nurses and drs
state owned green energy company
increase windfall tax on energy companies
totally end non doms
recruit 6500 teachers
Recruit 13,000 extra neighbourhood police
NHS: 40,000 more evening and weekend appointments each week
Building 1.5 million homes with the biggest boost to affordable, social and council housing for a generation

by the way, I will just say that I would love to see more left of centre policies, including mass council house building programme, renationalisation of water and energy. We also need a halt to the ever increasing assets owned by the wealthy. But those wont get Labour elected and theres no money.

labourlist.org

Labour general election manifesto 2024: What policies will the party include? - LabourList

The release of Labour's general election manifesto will be a key milestone in the coming weeks of campaigning, setting out in detail Labour's offer to voters and drawing the major battle lines between the party and the Conservatives.
labourlist.org labourlist.org

labourlist.org

Labour Party manifesto 2024: The Clause V meeting that signs off final document - LabourList

Labour Party manifesto 2024: The Clause V meeting that signs of final document
labourlist.org labourlist.org
 
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Starmer knew alright and led rishi rigth into it..

Keir Starmer has accused Rishi Sunak of “lying” when he claimed that a Labour government would lead to people paying £2,000 more in tax.

Speaking to journalists in Portsmouth, the Labour leader said the prime minister’s comments were a “flash of character” that mean “the choice at the next election is starker now than it was yesterday".

Asked why he didn’t refute the claim more quickly during the debate, he responded: “What matters is the facts. All of our plans are fully costed, fully funded, don’t involve tax rises for working people.

"I’ll spell that out, no income tax, no national insurance, no VAT. What you saw is the prime minister with his back against the wall desperately lashing out and resorting to lies.

"And he knew he was lying. I don’t say that lightly, it’s not the sort of thing that I say. He was lying, he was lying about our plans, he was lying about the boats, he was lying about waiting lists.

"That’s why the choice at the next election is starker now than it was yesterday. It’s a choice between chaos and confusion, the sort of thing we’ve seen now for 14 years and now lies on top of it. Or turn the page and rebuilding with Labour.”
 
Keir Starmer has accused Rishi Sunak of deliberately lying when he claimed Labour spending plans would increase taxes by £2,000, saying the prime minister’s tactics in Tuesday night’s TV debate showed he was dishonest when put under pressure.

Amid an increasingly bitter and personal war of words over the standout dispute in the debate between the prime minister and Labour leader, Starmer said be believed Sunak should be investigated for breaching the ministerial code for dishonesty.

“What you saw last night was a prime minister with his back against the wall, trying desperately to defend an awful record in office resorting to lies,” Starmer said in a round of media interviews during a D-Day-related visit to Portsmouth’s historic dockyard. He went on:

"He knew very well what he was doing.

He lied about our plans. And that is a true test of character. As we go to the polls it is important for voters to know about the character of the two individuals who want to be prime minister.

The prime minister revealed his character last night – someone who resorts to lies when he’s under pressure.

Asked if he believed Sunak had breached the ministerial code, and if he would back an investigation, Starmer replied: “Yes, he breached the ministerial code because he lied.”

The election, he added, was “a choice between chaos and division, and now lies on top of it”.
 
Notch7 said:
which if these do you think are not clear or not appropriate:

end VAT free private schools
collective wage bargaining
end zero hour contracts
end fire rehire
reform HoL
rebuild relationship with EU
repeal anti union laws
give more power to regions
more grants to nurses and drs
state owned green energy company
increase windfall tax on energy companies
totally end non doms
recruit 6500 teachers
Recruit 13,000 extra neighbourhood police
NHS: 40,000 more evening and weekend appointments each week
Building 1.5 million homes with the biggest boost to affordable, social and council housing for a generation
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Notch I don't want to seem tribal or argumentative but as Labour have said they won't raise Tax how on earth is this all to be paid for? A wind fall tax on energy will only go so far.
 
Notch7 said:
In any case Im not sure how any party could possibly implement "left of centre policies" when cost of borrowing is so high
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By borrowing. It worked for furlough. It works in the private sector.
 
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