Paris Olympics, Womens Boxing

[Trazor]

Broken noses can be painful.
I can understand how someone who has just experienced a broken nose and was forced to retire, would search for an excuse.

You would trash all female rights, based on a foolish ideology.

Do you support transitioning rapists being allowed into female prisons.

When you support such nonsense, you do women no service what so ever.

Wake up, and let some common sense seep into your head.

 

[JohnD]

A man is a woman if she decides to it to be. And a woman can be a man if she so decides.

Nope.

Not only have you invented a different meaning for the words "gender" and "female"

you have now redefined the meaning (in your own head) of the words "man" and "woman."

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

You would trash all female rights

Is there a hierarchy of rights?

Do you support transitioning rapists being allowed into female prisons.

I don't support rapists of any description.
Shall I check your support for Trump?

When you support such nonsense, you do women no service what so ever.

To what are you referring?

Wake up, and let some common sense seep into your head.

Wake up and start making intelligent arguments.
You might gain some credibility.

 

[JohnD]

In a sexual context, It was determined that she has a vagina, etc. It doesn't mean that she can reproduce nor that her internal biological makeup is female. Just that the person in attendance determined that she looks like a female, more than like male.

Wrong. That is not "sexual." It is biological.

You are also saying "looks more like."

If there was a very rare abnormality, and the biological sex was later discovered to be different from the earlier appearance, the person would actually be female if biologically so, and male if biologically so.

The word written on a piece of paper does not determine the sex. The actual biological sex determines the sex, and that is what is normally recorded.

You earlier falsely claimed that a man could become a woman if they had a desire, a wish, a fantasy or a whim.

A man is a woman if she decides to it to be. And a woman can be a man if she so decides.

This is not how sex is determined. It is a biological fact, not a whim.

 

[JohnD]

A man is a tree if she decides to it to be. And a woman can be a giraffe if she so decides.

Clearly just as false as

Mrs Doubtfyre said:
A man is a woman if she decides to it to be. And a woman can be a man if she so decides.

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

Nope.

Your opinion, although you are entitled to it, can never out rank another's right.

Not only have you invented a different meaning for the words "gender" and "female"

Not my definitions. It's you that have assigned different definitions to sex and gender.

Gender: the male sex or the female sex, especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences

Oxford Languages and Google - English | Oxford Languages

Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages. Oxford Languages is the world’s leading dictionary publisher, with over 150 years of experience creating and delivering authoritative dictionaries globally in more than 50 languages.

languages.oup.com

Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed.

Gender and health

Gender and health

www.who.int

sex: either of the two main categories (male and female) into which humans and most other living things are divided on the basis of their reproductive functions.

Oxford Languages and Google - English | Oxford Languages

Google’s English dictionary is provided by Oxford Languages. Oxford Languages is the world’s leading dictionary publisher, with over 150 years of experience creating and delivering authoritative dictionaries globally in more than 50 languages.

languages.oup.com

Sex refers to biological physical differences,

Sex and gender: Meanings, definition, identity, and expression

Sex and gender are different. Sex is assigned at birth, while gender is how a person identifies. Gender encompasses a broad spectrum. Learn more here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

you have now redefined the meaning (in your own head) of the words "man" and "woman."

My definitions, in my head, align with the medical and human rights organisations.
It's you that have an outdated, religious, Victorian concept of sex and gender.

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

Wrong. That is not "sexual." It is biological.

Sex is determined at birth by physical appearance.
There aren't normally biological tests carried out to determine sex.

You are also saying "looks more like."

Yes, like if an animal looks more like a dog, we describe it as a dog.
If it looks more like a horse, we call it a horse.

If there was a very rare abnormality, and the biological sex was later discovered to be different from the earlier appearance, the person would actually be female if biologically so, and male if biologically so.

It's not so rare, and your comment doesn't make much sense.
If they were determined to be female at birth, but it was a mistake, they would later be determined to be male.
It's often the determination of sex at birth that determines the role of a person in society.
But irrespective of how rare it is, we shouldn't apply discrimination due to an accident at birth.
We wouldn't discriminate against someone with a facial or limb disfigurement, so why the umbrage at genital deformity?

The word written on a piece of paper does not determine the sex. The actual biological sex determines the sex, and that is what is normally recorded.

The word written on a piece of paper determines the role that person will play in society, and that is reflected in legal considerations.. But some don't feel comfortable in the role society has chosen for them.
You wouldn't have any concern with a member of royalty changing their status, or a woman choosing to act the role of a man.
But when sex is concerned your immature attitude towards sex, and the different roles for men and women in society, starts overriding your common sense.

You earlier falsely claimed that a man could become a woman if they had a desire, a wish, a fantasy or a whim.
This is not how sex is determined. It is a biological fact, not a whim.

It is how gender is determined.
If you refuse to acknowledge the existence of gender, it's your problem.

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

A man is a tree if she decides to it to be. And a woman can be a giraffe if she so decides.

Clearly just as false as

You're being silly.

Mrs Doubtfyre said:
A man is a woman if she decides to it to be. And a woman can be a man if she so decides.

Thank you for repeating my argument for me. It saves me having to do it.
The male role is a social construct. It can be just as easily enacted by a woman, with the exception of biological reproduction.
But a woman who cannot reproduce are no less a woman.

 

[JohnD]

The male role is a social construct

However,being an adult human male, or "Man" is a biological fact. It is not an opinion, or a whim, or a desire, or a choice, or a social construct.

 

[JohnD]

If you are a man, who says "I am a woman" you do not become a woman.

You becomes a man who calls himself a woman.

 

[Trazor]

Wake up and start making intelligent arguments.
You might gain some credibility.

My credibility !!

Do you understand that everyone in this thread thinks you have none, and that you are a Troll with multi user names.

I don't think you're self aware enough, to understand that.

 

[Odds]

There are no transgender athletes who are competing outside of the gender they were assigned at birth at this year’s Games. Transgender women who transitioned after puberty aren’t allowed to compete in major sports on a college level. Athletes Nikki Hultz, a runner, and Hergie Bacyadan, a boxer, both identify as transgender (Hultz also identifies as nonbinary), but both have always and continue to compete in the women’s division, which is the sex they were assigned at birth.

Michael Waters’s The Other Olympians: Fascism, Queerness, and the Making of Modern Sports book traces the emergence of Zdeněk Koubek, a track and field star representing the country formerly known as Czechoslovakia who, at 21, won two medals — a gold in the 800m and a bronze in the long jump — at the 1934 Women’s World Games. (The Women’s World Games was the precursor to women competing at the Olympics). In 1935, Koubek announced that he would be living life as a man and swiftly became an international celebrity.

Perhaps the most intriguing facet to Koubek’s story was in the public response. Koubek was more welcomed and celebrated than we might imagine. There was an open-mindedness and empathy to the reception of Koubek and his gender identity and expression in the 1930s. Waters also pinpoints where and when that changed, specifically at the 1936 Olympics in Nazi Germany. Armed with a propensity for eugenics, gender anxiety, and a startling lack of scientific evidence, a small set of Nazi officials influenced the International Olympic Committee into gender surveillance and trans panic — stuff that eerily mirrors the transphobic attacks that athletes, cis and trans alike, face today.

VOX.com

Nor is Khelif transgender. Unusually, she is reported to have XY sex chromosomes — but Khelif was born female.

 

[motorbiking]

Could be intersex / DSD. Its rare but it doesn't change the unfair biological advantage that the person has if competing in women's sport.

My youngest boxes, he knocks about with some semi-pros/ now, I suspect there is no woman on the planet he couldn't beat. Not because he is good, but because he is male.

 

[Mrs Doubtfyre]

However,being an adult human male, or "Man" is a biological fact. It is not an opinion, or a whim, or a desire, or a choice, or a social construct.

It's kind of both.
Male and female are descriptions given to babies at birth based on their genital appearances.
It's also a description of gender, i.e. the roles that people act in society. The gender role does not need to follow the biological role.
Although in your opinion, it obviously must. I assume you don't apply such rigid role models to other sphere's of society. For instance, I don't suppose you have any problem with a meritocracy, or a soldier espousing a pacifist role, or a priest taking up arms, etc.
It's just the sex angle that gets you triggered.

Now when you say, "a woman becoming a man, I assume you are talking about a permanent change of gender.
Because transitioning is not a temporary process, it's a permanent process. Although mistakes can be made.

If you are referring to the temporary process of a woman temporarily acting out the role of a man, that would be theatre, or cross-dressing, etc.

But transitioning isn't just a whim, or a temporary desire, it's a life-changing decision. And that case it is acceptable to call it a choice, or an opinion.
It's a choice or an opinion of how they wish to live the rest of their lives. And legal processes exist to allow that.

So being a man or a woman can be both a biological label and a social construct. And the social construct can be interchangeable.
The biological definition can, to all intents and purposes, also be interchangeable.
As of yet, it's not been possible for a biological man to have the whole biological functions of a woman. But there are many women who can't have babies. It doesn't make them any less of a woman.

 

[gas112]

if it looks like a man built like a man punches like a man then its a man and the Algerian had all of those